PieFedGoogle will develop Android OS entirely behind closed doors starting next week
9to5google.com/2025/03/26/google-android-aosp-d…
Google is adjusting how Android is made, with the AOSP branch moving behind closed doors, leaving the entire OS to be privately developed.
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MakiIt's just a slow locking down to stay in control... We just need to all shift to proper #Linux phones instead of linux-by-google. Could be nice to see some European moves there. There are plenty of good developers within the EU. The biggest issues would be in funding that development and to market it properly to artificially kickstart adoption of such a platform. There are already phones made in Europe; Fairphone is Dutch, I think?
And you think Fairphones are made in Europe? They are made in China, just like all the iPhones and Google Pixels.
Fairphone is indeed Dutch, and they even make a point on their website of paying a decent living wage to all Chinese workers making their phones.
Typed from my Fairphone 4 running /e/OS
By all rights there should be more such production in Europe. If not existing, than startups should be planned given the geopolitical mess.
Yes, but something like that will take a long time.
There is all the manufacturing know how and the need to make the manufacturing process economically viable. That is certainly not something that can be done overnight, but also certainly something that can be done.
But the materials are a way bigger mess. The literal materials you need in order to make that phone are not available here.
You need to start with a reliable supply of rare earths, and good luck doing that in Europe (the extraction is, with current industry practices, really quite polluting).
China developed the deposits they have in some regions and we were all too happy ti never have to do that crap again domestically. Then they put rare earths under export control, so that if you want rare earths in your products (and you do, you really do) you have to manufacture in China.
So yes, we really need to have an alternative, but your next phone is definitely going to be made in China just like the one you have now. And probably the one after that too.
Couldn't someone fork Android and get a head start that way? As I understand It android is FOSS at its core.
I think you are either replying to the wrong comment, or completely misunderstanding the issue.
The majority of Android is open source, though its development is still led by Google.
That is how you have so many deGoogled versions like LineageOS, GrapheneOS, /e/OS, CalyxOS, etc. They all start from the OS version, called AOSP, and then add things from there.
The Android you have on your phone contains a few proprietary bits by Google (the Play services) which are absolutely essential to using Android the way most people do. These can be replaced with open source versions that are mostly fine (mostly).
If Google makes android closed source, we stop getting updates, but we keep all we have, and can move forward from there.
Having a good mobile operating system without Google if need be is totally doable.
But if you want to use a mobile operating system, you first need a mobile phone to run it.
And while we can totally already have a mobile OS without the USA, right now we really can't have a mobile phone without China. And neither can the US. And that's going to take a long time to sort out.
There's virtually no choice for building competitive phones in Europe. The tech just doesn't exist there. After decades of buying all electronics in China, China was the only country progressing in manufacturing. So FairPhone is really as European as it gets.
There is Gigaset who makes phones in a factory in Germany. But their phones are locked with Google play services, and they never attracted ROM development, they also don't attract the general public to start with.
There are definitely chip manufacturers in Europe. You could probably build a phone from scratch. But it would be prohitively expensive.
There's virtually no choice for building competitive phones in Europe.
Or anywhere else for that matter. Know of any good phone made in Canada?
So FairPhone is really as European as it gets.
Indeed, and that was not an irrelevant consideration when buying one. As is often the conclusion when discussing FairPhone... "Yeah, that's far from perfect but it's truly the best they could do given the circumstances".
It's been mostly this way for a while reason why it takes a little bit before lineageos releases the next version. AOSP is just fully down stream. What will be concerning is when those releases get longer and longer. As another comment said we all just need to figure out linux phones. Been eyeing a pine phone for a while now should probably pull the trigger.
I would recommend against the pinephone. While the hardware is well supported, the hardware sucks. Voyager in Firefox runs at around 4 fps, while the battery percent drops every minute and the back of the phone is uncomfortably hot.
You would be better off with a Pixel 3a, oneplus 6 or poco f1, which are all supported by PostmarketOS. While many hardware features don't work on these phones, they all have rudimentary camera support and have actually good SOCs that perform well.
I just found FuriOS phone the other day. Looks promising.
Sunshine (she/her)We have some European alternatives to Android.
- Ubuntu Touch Germany 🇩🇪
- Postmarket OS Europe 🇪🇺
- Sailfish OS Finland 🇫🇮
IgilqI used postmarket os in past and I can recommend it… it has terminal for people who want to tinker with it but it can be used without terminal. Os is very easy to use and supports many devices, their support channels are hosted on matrix
jabjoeWhat hardware works probably for it to be a daily phone? Looks like none have the camera more than partly working and most have worse problems.
Pissed me off phones aren't just like PCs. They shouldn't need Device Tree and custom ROMs. We should be able to install whatever OS we want and be confident it can work.
This really could use some EU regulation. But probably not a very simple issue (especially the cameras I believe)
Absolutely. Google aren't going to demand discoverability for their platform. ARM aren't going to put it in either. Both are happy for things to go obsolete and be replaced just because of software. So it falls to regulators when the market fails.
e/os too, yeah?
Isn't that a fork of LineageOS?
More like a derivative, they consistently port stuff over from Lineage, which is just a distribution of Android, which is in turn based on a gazillion other OS project starting from Linux.
In the end either it's good enough to have the "headquarters" of this specific project in Europe, no version of Android can be considered European enough, as it all depends way too heavily on Google.
There is also a decent chance of Google making Android closed source in the medium term anyway, but the last several releases of Android have not exactly added mindblowing features, and I don't have a tremendous amount of interest in whatever kind of enshittified cloud dependent AI infested mess they have planned next.
ColdWaterHardware support is the main issue for me, all of these 3 none support my phone (Pixel 3)
Odd as Ubuntu Touch is fully optimized on the pixel 3a.
I'm trying to degoogling my life for quite long time. This is what is curreently missing:
- wallet: only apple, samsung and google solutions out there for all Europe. There is a EU project that unfortunatlely cannot be used in the UK. I mean, to understand how sick the system is, think that most of all credit cards out there are owned by the US.
- Family link, something to managed kids devices
wallet: my current solution is Garmin Pay. For that you need a compatible Garmin watch. Once the card is added to the watch, all the payment is done without even passing by the phone, just communication between watch and payment terminal. Garmin watches work really very well with Gadgetbridge. Cards have to be added via the Garmin App, and possibly via a phone running a stock OS (mine didn't work from the aftermarket ROM, but may be bank dependent)
Family Link: For other options you may need to do a factory reset and install a device manager app, that then needs to be enabled via ADB. Or use a custom ROM. No pleasant options out there.
asudoxThere's hope for the wallet thing in the future.
https://f-droid.org/packages/net.taler.wallet.fdroid/
https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.html
I wonder what this will do to grapheneOS. I was just about to flash it on my phone this weekend.
Yet another example of companies circling the wagons
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I understand that.
But the development will be in closed branches.
That has a greater chance of causing pains when GOS devs are adjusting these new features right?
Because now you, theoretically, have no upfront information about whatever bloatware google is about to inject in.
They didn't before this only affects code changes going from AOSP to Google's private branch, which is going away. Code from Google's private branch to AOSP is unaffected. Custom ROMs are all just down stream consumers of AOSP repository anyways.
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This website can sometimes help with working out whether something works without Google Play Services https://plexus.techlore.tech/ | https://github.com/techlore/Plexus-app?tab=readme-ov-file
Sooo ACSP?
"...Google isn’t changing the speed at which these new builds arrive. Rather, this will potentially streamline the process and prevent conflicts when merging the branches.
This does not mean that Google is making Android a closed-source platform, but rather that the open-source aspect will only be released when a new branch is released to AOSP with those changes, including when new full versions or maintenance releases are finished."
This is why open source should use the GPL license.
vaguerantGPL wouldn't prevent this in any way. It doesn't compel you to provide source unless you're also providing binaries. That's exactly what they're going to do, only show their work upon release. Not defending that choice, just explaining that it would be perfectly GPL-compliant.
I thought they were moving to closed source entirely which is against the GPL license but I didn't properly read the article it seems.
PostmarketOS can't happen fast enough
LineageOS, & GrapheneOS hopefully will still be good for now
As a GrapheneOS user I'm with you on this. Hopefully this won't negatively impact the development of GOS. I feel like it will though.
If google where to close android it'll undoubtedly be forked.
Pretty sure the likes of Graphene and Calyx will be fine for the forseeable future.
and google will be doing everything they can to grow incompatibility and make maintaining an open fork impossible. don't forget that google employs devs for pay, but fork maintainers are doing it as a hobby, out of passion, while already working somewhere. It's a bit similar to matrix, its homeservers and clients. the spec and the software evolves slowly, but its still too fast for alt implementations
Google can only do that if they can maintain grip on the market. This requires the likes of Samsung, who also contribyte to android, to move with them to their then propiatary solution.
Google is not going to win this just with their Pixels.
Google closing android would ruffle a lot of feathers so it definitely wouldn't be a given they would come out of that on top.
Apple has no problem existing outside of Google's sphere of influence.
And honestly if the android market would split and you'd get legitimately google-less phones with large app stores that google doesn't control that would be fairly beneficial if you ask me.
This requires the likes of Samsung to move with them to their then propiatary solution. Google is not going to win this just with their Pixels.
I don't see why samsung wouldn't accept this change. do they make use of the AOSP project? if they do, wouldn't they be able to make a deal with Google to have access to the code?
I mean.
They could go with google and most ideally change nothing, or stay with the open source project and try to cut out a slice of the appstore pie for themselves.
Emily (she/her)It's important to note that this is them moving in-development branches/features "behind closed doors", not making Android closed source. Whenever a feature is ready they then merge it publicly. I know this community tends to be filled with purists, many of whom are well informed and reasoned, but I'm actually totally fine with this change. This kind of structure isn't crazy uncommon, and I imagine it's mainly an effort to stop tech journalists analysing random in-progress features for an article. Personally, I wouldn't want to develop code with that kind of pressure.
thannWhy would you want people to test your software on all sorts of random hardware when you could just pay people to test it on a smaller scale!
C'mon, that's what PR's, RCs, and betas are for
Lots of people make a PR very early though, just to keep track of development and have a space to jot down thoughts and ideas, and get feedback during.
Would you really want everyone in the world looking at every end of day commit before you've refactored it into something vaguely passable?
JackbyDevWhen that code is used on devices all over the world for many very important tasks, yes.
Who tf looks at feature branches unless it's particularly relevant to them or they're reviewing a PR?
It's not like they merge half-baked features straight to master every day lol
So what exactly are we losing?
You can't review changes in the next build before it's actually released?
Currently you can still keep up with the master branch. PRs are merged a fair bit more often than new builds are made.
Ah and nobody outside of Google can contribute to Android development. I believe up till now if you found a bug you could fix it and open a PR? No?
Would you really want everyone in the world looking at every end of day commit before you've refactored it into something vaguely passable?
Honestly, it has been fine. Almost nobody really pays attention to anything they don't care about, and most people who do care tend to be pretty helpful.
Heck, I'll sometimes make a wip.diff file and scp it back and forth between work and home machines just because the code feels not ready for other eyes.
I'm not a fan, but I understand it and am generally okay with it. I still wish it all happened in the open like Linux.
Not only that, the Android Police article mentions they had a lot of trouble merging the internal branches and the public branches, so I’m guessing as time went on they’ve diverged more and more.
I don't know anything about Android AOSP, so I found this clarification important:
This does not mean that Google is making Android a closed-source platform, but rather that the open-source aspect will only be released when a new branch is released to AOSP with those changes, including when new full versions or maintenance releases are finished.
Yes, there will still be the aosp repository as open-source. It will have some lag, but still there.
Thus said, Google has moved a lot of things into the Google Play services over the years (closed sources).
So, who knows what's next!
Let's praise that some companies inject money / devs into postmarketos!
With this happenning and apple getting extorted to accept third party apps it would be funny if they switch places
Gianmarco GargiuloBoiling the frog, slowly... As more of these terrible decisions keep stifling Android up to a point where it becomes just a vessel to Google's proprietary garbage (as it has been the case for many years already for a lot of things), it should be a wake up call for mobile Linux to keep improving and do it faster.
Here are the donation pages for your open-source alternatives:
https://opencollective.com/postmarketOS
https://liberapay.com/ubports-foundation/
https://liberapay.com/mobian/donate
https://e.foundation/donate-2/
https://shop.jolla.com/details/12596a34-597b-47d4-a502-c0ef15d2a4de/
It’s never been a better time to switch to !linuxphones@lemmy.ca
Surprised pikachu face... they've been closing Android bit by bit every year, everybody knows their real intent is to turn it into closed source.
They are closing nothing here. It's the equivalent of the developer doing local commits and delaying the public pull request.
nuko147I trust them. They showed that they only care for their customers and not for maximizing profits.
/s right?
Google's main goal is privacy and costumers happiness, Trump's is democracy and Putin's is peace.
You must be from a parallel universe where Google actually followed through with their "Don't be evil" motto.
Here Google scrapes every last atom of data from all of its users.
Fucking RIP. Europe, throw us another sicc ass curve ball.
Everyone must switch to:
Please consider joining !linuxphones@lemmy.ca to discuss the alternatives. We must support these hardworking developers more.
So Google tightening the look but don't touch approach? Not a surprise at all. Google already implement this approach with Push notifications (FCM/GCM) and Hardware Attestation that makes custom android OS/ROM harder to recommend for most people that need for example app that needs good Location service and Phone Payment like Google Wallet.
If only there was an open source alternative to Android that you could install on any phone.
Big platforms will aggressively sabotage any country who tries taking their malwares from the population: better to go scorched-earth than to TOLERATE alternative/competition, right?
I won't be surprised when entire-countries' devices are bricked to teach the country a lesson, while the Russia+Trump alliance begins their total-war on that country..
Countries have already accommodated allowing all critical-infrastructure to be proprietary, in tech..
they are owned, & cannot get out of that with the incompetence that they got into it, with..
Exactly as the tech-oligarchs intended.
I'm a geek, & it makes me want to puke, what's been accomplished, against humankind's viability, by tech-people..
_ /\ _
If you have one in mind drop it in a comment
When Linux phones?
(Actually usable ones)
Ask Valve if they see potential in mobile Linux gaming.
Why Valve? Because if they see potential in something, it'll be great.
probably making pixel phones less able to switch to another OS, much like with IOS.
Contributing to AOSP is already difficult. Now patches wrt stable branch will lead to more conflicts as stable gets older.
total bs (at https://source.android.com/docs/setup/about/faqs#why-are-parts-of-android-developed-in-private).