Brazil fires back at ‘outrageous’ Israeli response to Lula comments

submitted by MakunaHatata edited

thecradle.co/articles/brazil-fires-back-at-outr…

Israeli officials have accused Brazil’s president of antisemitism following his comparison of Israeli violence to that of the Nazis

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"For a foreign ministry to address a head of state from a friendly country in this way is unusual and revolting. It is a shameful page in the history of Israel's diplomacy," the Brazilian diplomat went on to say, adding that Israel is trying to cover up its crimes in Gaza with a smokescreen

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13 Comments

Th4tGuyII

Funny they should be calling people Nazis considering they're the ones actively performing a genocide. I don't see the Brazillians bombing Palestinian hospitals and letting soliders mow down innocent civilians.

bbkpr , edited

The staggering irony of them doing the very same thing the Nazis did to them to them less than 100 years ago, *and then calling an allied country holding them to account for it Nazis*, is mind blowing. There are still people alive today who were hunted by Nazis, what do they think, I wonder?

Jo Miran

How dare he say facts out loud?!!!

bbkpr , edited

with a smokescreen

I wouldn't say it's a smokescreen, they're pretty open about genocide, e.g. Netanyahu's call to "finish the job". I'd say that's everything short of a direct call for literal genocide, given the context.

DarkGamer , edited

Your article makes it quite clear that he's referring to destroying Hamas, not calling for genocide.

winterayars

Considering Israel seems to consider infants in a hospital to be Hamas i don't think this actually matters. At all.

bbkpr , edited

Based on his actions, not his empty words, he has made it quite clear there is no distinction between Hamas and women + children, they're effectively the same at this point.

TranscendentalEmpire

Out of the 25k deaths and 65k injuries, how many do you believe to be "Hamas"?

How can one even tell once the job is finished?

DarkGamer , edited

Out of the 25k deaths and 65k injuries, how many do you believe to be “Hamas”?

Accurate figures are hard to come by, I've seen estimates that 61% of deaths were noncombatant civilians, however there's a lot of probably inaccurate assumptions being made to arrive at that figure, (such as, every male of fighting age is a combatant, and women, children, and the elderly are not.)

The 25k casualties figure comes from the Gaza ministry of health, run by Hamas, so its figures are also questionable. However, assuming both of these figures are accurate, ~9,750 of those deaths would be Hamas, (which is estimated to have 25,000 members.) I don't have enough info to estimate Hamas injuries.

How can one even tell once the job is finished?

The stated goals of the operation are to depose Hamas and get the hostages back. So, I presume once that happens.

TranscendentalEmpire

Accurate figures are hard to come by, I've seen estimates that 61% of deaths were noncombatant civilians, however there's a lot of probably inaccurate assumptions being made to arrive at that figure, (such as, every male of fighting age is a combatant, and women, children, and the elderly are not.)

I find that nearly impossible to believe...... Before the war, as you said Hamas only had 20-25k members, with the adult male population ages 15-64 being 580,000. Meaning if we assume all Hamas members are male ages 15-64, then all of Hamas only made up 2.9% of the male population.

Based on the fact that the majority of the deaths have been women and children, it means that the majority of the deaths have happened in civilian locations. Areas where civilian males will also be, what with them being 97% of the male population.

So your claim is that the Israeli army is capable of tracking down 2.9% of the male population that make up Hamas and kill only them, but for some reason is killing a bunch of women and children in the process...

Or, is it more likely is that 90-97% of the deaths have been civilians that they then label Hamas?

stated goals of the operation are to depose Hamas and get the hostages back. So, I presume once that happens.

How do you depose of a government that's not longer in control of their territory? When a government loses control of a territory they are deposed, killing civilians isn't going to do anything to further depose a leadership organization. Also, it doesn't exactly seem like Israel is prioritizing their hostage situation, what with them rejecting several cease fires for hostages deals.

DarkGamer , edited

Based on the fact that the majority of the deaths have been women and children, it means that the majority of the deaths have happened in civilian locations.

You're ignoring the possibility that some women and children could also be Hamas soldiers. Hamas is famous for using protected civilian locations as military resources, thereby making them no longer legally protected.

So your claim is that the Israeli army is capable of tracking down 2.9% of the male population that make up Hamas and kill only them, but for some reason is killing a bunch of women and children in the process…

  • I never made that claim.
  • I am estimating based on the best figures we have right now, none of which are great.
  • Collateral damage always happens in war.

is it more likely is that 90-97% of the deaths have been civilians that they then label Hamas?

I don't know. That 61% estimate is by Professor Yagil Levy, who appears to be quite critical of Israel's behaviors, not IDF.

How do you depose of a government that’s not longer in control of their territory? When a government loses control of a territory they are deposed, killing civilians isn’t going to do anything to further depose a leadership organization.

Last I heard Hamas remains belligerent, still has hostages, and are currently defending their territory with lethal force.
Pacification means one destroys either the fighter or the will and means to fight.

Also, it doesn’t exactly seem like Israel is prioritizing their hostage situation, what with them rejecting several cease fires for hostages deals.

True. They had a cease fire for hostages deal which each side accuses the other of violating. Israel hasn't liked the terms of subsequent offers. As Israel holds most of the cards, they have the most negotiating leverage. If Hamas cared at all about their nation even unconditional surrender would be a better option than what they have been doing.

DarkGamer

"We're just a friendly country calling you Nazis."