European leaders call for stronger defence ties after Trump’s Nato remarks

European leaders call for stronger defence ties after Trump’s Nato remarks

submitted by Avatar breakfastmtn edited

www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/12/european-…

European leaders have called for greater unity and military cooperation across the continent in response to comments from Donald Trump that threatened to undermine the basis of Nato.

Donald Tusk, Poland’s prime minister, said on a visit to Paris on Monday that there was “no alternative” to the EU and the transatlantic alliance before a summit in which he discussed deepening defence relationships with the French president, Emmanuel Macron.

“It is probably here in Paris that the words from The Three Musketeers by Alexandre Dumas resonate most clearly: ‘All for one, and one for all,’” said Tusk, in a thinly veiled riposte to the former US president and frontrunner for the Republican presidential nomination.

Archive

Log in to comment

ExLisper , edited

It should have been clear 7 years ago that Europe can't rely on US any more. Hoping US will become a rational partner again and dragging their feet on real action is probably equal part inertia and corruption. Hopefully they will wake up sooner than they did with Russia and energy independence.

FenrirIII

Republicans have become pawns of Putin. They will never be reliable for anything but obstruction

frezik

You're not wrong; Angela Merkel outright said it about 6 years ago. I can't find a reference right now, but I believe she even clarified that this conclusion had been building even before Trump was in office.

mods_are_assholes

Hoping US will become a rational partner again

Unlikely, 40% of our country supports a seditionist authoritarian.

Avatar Dr. Wesker , edited

At what point does this guy become such a liability, that the CIA carries out "Operation Orange Peel"?

isles

You don't think the CIA is on his side? His aims seem aligned with theirs.

frezik , edited

To a point. The CIA suddenly lost a lot of human assets in 2021. At around the same time, the National Archives had been asking Trump to please kindly return all the classified documents he has at Mar-a-Lago. We don't know for sure that one led to the other, but the CIA has to be thinking about it.

Maggoty

You and I don't know for sure. The CIA knows exactly what was in those documents.

IllNess

Hopefully Secret Service is keeping tabs on this guy and microphoned his hair flap.

Avatar douglasg14b

Trump and conservatives, eroding the U.S. global position every day.

Making the country weaker on the global table, while also making it poorer, less capable, and generally less stable.

Maggoty

Trump is doing a great job!

... At cutting the US out of the world, which won't crash our economy at all.

xenoclast

He's doing a great job bringing the world together. Against him. What a leader!

Avatar lemmus

ETO: European Treaty Organization. Cut the US out and problem solved.

No longer following imperialistic US foreign policy in the name of collective defense.

Avatar Wahots

I dunno, Marine Le Pen and others are also casting a shadow over Europe. Keep voting for strong candidates to keep the likes of her and the AFD out. It's very important the world weather this storm.

Avatar agent_flounder , edited

Orban is no prize, as another example. But it sounds like Poland turned things around in the last election?

suction

Small note, make it ETO‘O: European Treaty Organisation Operations.

Avatar sab

Also get rid of Turkey while we're at it. If I were forced to fight down there I'd fight along the Kurds.

protist , edited

It's hard to overstate the strategic importance of the Bosporus Strait

Maggoty

I think the relevant question is how hard would it be to take the Greek side of the strait in a war case?

And how quickly would a Greece-Turkey war kick off if they weren't in an alliance anymore?

Avatar sab

Of course - and hopefully soon Erdogan will rot and someone more worthy will take over. I'm not saying we should stop considering Turkey allies, I just don't want to depend on them that's all.

Avatar Hamartiogonic , edited

The Bosporus Strait is not just a waterway, it is the lifeline of civilization. It is the gateway to the East and the West, the cradle of culture and commerce, the nexus of power and prosperity. Without the Bosporus Strait, the world would be plunged into a spiral of darkness and chaos. The fate of humanity hinges on the control of this narrow strip of sea. Whoever holds the Bosporus Strait holds the keys to infinite power. The Bosporus Strait is the question and the answer, the beginning and the end, the ultimate and the absolute. All hail the Bosporus Strait!

Maggoty

That's the Suez Canal you're thinking of. The Bosporus Straight has plenty of rail roads circumventing it.

protist

"Hard to overstate" is just a saying, clearly it's easy to overstate.

mellowheat

The good thing about outsourcing military might to another country like the USA has had pretty great social effects in European countries. Lower militarism, higher amount of resources put to actually useful things.

But I guess nothing can last forever.

Avatar girlfreddy

America is quickly loosing the strong leadership persona it's held for decades due to the utter stupidity of its leaders (both former and current). Biden has been lax on his oversight, but in fairness to him he had a shitshow to contend with in dealing with the fallout from Jan 6.

Come Nov Americans had better figure it out before everything it's worked for goes spinning down the drain.

Avatar sab

Biden is fine. It's your fascist problem we're worried about.

Sincerely,
Europe

TheDarkKnight

As an American it’s equally annoying how people cannot fucking see what a great job Biden has done overall. Land of the Free, Home of the Dumb

PM_Your_Nudes_Please

That’s because democrats are laughably horrible at championing their own successes. In contrast, republicans will drop a steaming pile of shit on the Speaker of the House’s desk, walk outside in front of the news cameras, and start screeching about how hard they’re winning.

As always, democrats are their own worst enemy.

Maggoty

That's also to do with their voting base. Biden's numbers went down partly because he tried to take a victory lap on the economy without the economy being better for most Americans.

Avatar IchNichtenLichten

It's a little much to call them dumb when wages haven't gone up by nearly as much as literally everything else has.

TheDarkKnight

As compared to what? The inflationary rates of the rest of the world? Because things cost more everywhere and comparatively the US weathered that better than about anywhere else. Real Wages have also have increased a lot to compensate in comparison as well. US is smoking other countries in this regard. People ARE dumb because they lack the critical thinking skills to actually look what’s going on.

The Inflation rate is lower than most other countries AND real wages have risen much more in America compared to peer countries as well. Each one of them would trade their numbers with the US in a heartbeat.

Feelings aren't facts, turns facts are facts. And the fact is when measuring real numbers Biden has absolutely crushed it.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/sep/01/joe-biden/does-the-us-have-less-inflation-than-other-leading/

https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-got-bigger-raises-than-g7-over-last-few-years-2023-7?op=1

Avatar IchNichtenLichten

Do you really think Americans are comparing their economy to those of other countries?

Don't be silly.

Maggoty

I don't give a fuck what's going on in other countries. I need to put food on the table for *my* family.

Maggoty , edited

Biden is going to exacerbate the fascist problem if he keeps ignoring the economy.

Sincerely,

The Workers of America.

fine_sandy_bottom

if he keeps ignoring the economy.

Everyone says the economy is going great though?!

Avatar sab

"The" economy is going great, but since the US has an insane problem of inequality caused by decades of trickle down economics, this does not necessarily translate to the lived experience of ordinary people.

Standing up for unions and student loan forgiveness are two examples of policies the current administration pursue in order to deal with this. They are very limited by what they can do because the senate sucks.

mellowheat , edited

I think it probably started with George W. Bush and especially the way he reacted to 9/11. The way they've been winding back those mistakes has been milquetoast at best.

Terrorists win.

ngdev

Loosing isn't the right word

Szymon , edited

How convenient for countries that consider the USA unfriendly.

Hey didn't that Tucker guy just have an interview with Putin? What now?

JTskulk

Isn't this exactly what Trump wants?

Avatar realitista

The main reason Trump is saying these things is that it's already abundantly clear that every country in Europe will be hitting their NATO funding target in the next few years anyway. They've all made plans to that effect anyway. So Trump can make it look like he did it, when in reality it had already been decided.

JTskulk

Thanks for the clear explanation, I wasn't aware.

Avatar Zuberi 👀

*3rd party 2024 and end this bullshit*

PM_Your_Nudes_Please , edited

*~~3rd party 2024~~ Split the vote 2024 and ~~end this bullshit~~ give conservatives a landslide win*

FTFY. I don’t like Biden. I’d rather have a fucking llama in office. But every vote pulled from Biden in favor of a 3rd party is a de facto vote for conservatives.

You want 3rd party to be a viable vote? Vote for democrats who support ranked voting.

Avatar Zuberi 👀

A vote for a 3rd party is not a vote for whoever *you* don't like. You must see how that logic is flawed.

Shaggy1050

As a former 3rd party voter; it's a wasted vote. I don't like either parties but voting 3rd party favors the GOP in US elections. Now that the GOP is full steam ahead on facism, voting 3rd party is dangerous. Hopefully more municipalities, states, and national elections will migrate to ranked choice voting to make voting for other parties a viable option. Until then, I'd rather not vote for the party that wants a dictatorship.

PM_Your_Nudes_Please

It’s not whoever *I* don’t like. It’s that “vote third party” is a conservative talking point used to bait liberals into wasting their votes. Because conservatives are already really good at presenting a unified front and consolidating votes, so the talking point only truly affects one side of the political spectrum.

mellowheat

I kinda had hopes for capital L Libertarians but oh man those guys are a special kind of nuts.