A top Jewish group in Switzerland slams antisemitic poster purportedly by a local ski rental stand

submitted by ArtikBanana edited

apnews.com/article/antisemitism-davos-switzerla…

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Arete

This is a ski shop that posted a sign saying they won't do business with Jews, due to a Jewish person stealing a sled.

Replace 'Jew' with any other ethnic group here and it's clearly not okay, but I'm sure other commenters will make an exception.

Philo

where did it say a Jew stole the sled?

Arete

the shop would no longer rent gear such as sleds, skis and snowshoes to “our Jewish brothers” after a series of “very annoying incidents” — including the theft of a sled.

Philo

Yes. What part of that says who stole the sled?

Arete

Basic reading comprehension mate. The sign is wrong regardless of whether a Jewish customer stole anything. It isn't a point worth fighting over.

Philo , edited

It isn't reading comprehension, it's a lack of critical thinking, or in some cases it's people reading into it what they want to see. And it is worth fighting for because it is that lackadaisical attitude that will allow widespread antisemitism again and another Holocaust.

GBU_28

This is sovcit reading comprehension on display lol

Avatar agent_flounder , edited

where did it say a Jew stole the sled?

Based on your other comments, the point you are making is that it isn't explicitly stated, correct?

But then why are they refusing to do business specifically with Jews after the thefts?

And how is refusing business to a specific group not discriminatory?

Avatar Philo

Correct.

What reason? That they along with many others in Europe are riding along with the rising tide of antisemitism (as the article states).

Avatar agent_flounder

Which makes the shop owners even *more* antisemitic. Someone steals something and antisemitic shop owners immediately blame all Jews. Yikes.

Avatar InternationalBastard

Where did the other commenter say it's not an antisemitic incident? I believe they want to say it's nothing to do with a sled, just pure antisemitism

jonne

It's mentioned in the article?

Philo

No, it isn't. You are assuming. We all know what happens when you assume.

jonne

Ok, let's break this down, because you're being willfully obtuse here:

said the shop would no longer rent gear such as sleds, skis and snowshoes to “our Jewish brothers” after a series of “very annoying incidents” — including the theft of a sled.

This is a rental shop, in the context of this business, theft means that someone rented a sled and didn't bring it back. A rental shop knows exactly who they rented something to, so it's likely they knew it was an Israeli citizen/Jew. So we can at least be sure that the shop is making the accusation that a Jew stole a sled, I don't know why you get so hung up on that.

Now, is it racist to put up a sign that bars a whole group of people based on a few incidents? Yes, obviously, and nobody here is denying that.

Avatar Philo

What part of the word ASSumption are you not understanding?

Avatar Philo

Wow, being downvoted because I refuse to participate in the confirmation bias you guys are?

idiomaddict

I think it’s just not especially clear to people that you’re pointing out that there’s a reason the ski resort is implying, but skating around accusing a Jew of theft. For some reason people are interpreting it as pedantry instead of holding the ski resort accountable. They should be explicit about what exactly has happened so that people can see how flimsy it is instead of talking nebulously about “incidents”

Avatar Caligvla , edited

Don't bother, his point was very clear from the start but he isn't here to argue in good faith, he's here to bait people with ridiculous questions and then in turn call them anti-semites for answering them. He's a troll, plain and simple.

idiomaddict

The world has gone topsy turvy. It is anti-Semitic to ban Jews from renting your equipment, regardless of the reason (maybe if it’s made out of pork). It is not anti-Semitic to a) read the ski shop’s implication and follow it; b) think Israel should stop bombing Gaza. The other person is definitely arguing in bad faith now, but it’s a valid point to say that if the ski resort wants to make an accusation it should be specific.

This is not a response just to you, it’s just that I feel like Jews are getting politicized because of Israel, and it feels so dangerous.

maness300

Slammin'

Were they playing pogs? Y'all remember pogs, right?

Pretzilla , edited

Collective punishment is a war crime

[adding:] *... isn't it ironic, don't you think...*

moody

Is Switzerland at war with the Jews?

jonne

Looks like that shop owner is.

CityPop

You're right Israel is engaging in war crimes against the Palestinians. This however ain't it chief.

n3m37h

So Israeli Jews can be dicks to others without repercussions but no one can call them out on their bullshit? Gotcha

Rapidcreek

What about Switzerland Jews don't you understand?

Avatar deegeese

Israeli tourists behaving badly.

the shop would no longer rent gear such as sleds, skis and snowshoes to “our Jewish brothers” after a series of “very annoying incidents” — including the theft of a sled. The message, written in Hebrew, appeared to be directed at Israeli Jews who have been traveling to Davos in growing numbers in recent years

Rapidcreek

Never mind that Swiss Jews are the ones protesting. I see.

Avatar deegeese

Sorry, it sounded like you hadn’t the article.

Rapidcreek

Maybe you didn't read the first paragraph?

Switzerland’s main Jewish organization on Monday denounced an antisemitic sign put up at a local ski shop near Davos, barring Jews from renting equipment from the store. Regional police opened an investigation.

Philo

Did the article say the annoying events were because of anything the Jews did? It does seem to indicate that antisemitism has been rising across Europe since October 7th. It also appears to be spreading to this thread.

Avatar KoboldCoterie

I mean, I think it's heavily implied by the context, such that any reasonable reader would make that assumption...

Avatar girlfreddy

Ass-u-me.

Right?

Philo

Implied so that any reader with an antisemitic bent would make the assumption. And look, you did...

Avatar KoboldCoterie

Look, man. Obviously not every Israeli tourist is bad. However, the article is *specifically* about a response to Israeli tourists being bad, and protests by Jews calling the (obviously inappropriate) response anti-Semitism. If you read that, and your first thought is, "Well, the sign didn't specifically say it was an Israeli tourist who stole the bike... clearly everyone is just *jumping to conclusions* because they're *racist*!", I think you need to take a step back and look at the whole situation.

What makes more sense? 1) Israeli tourists cause problems in shop, including stealing a sled. Shop owner posts sign banning Israeli tourists from the shop. Or 2) Some random non-Israeli causes problems in the shop, shop owner bans Israeli tourists because for unrelated reasons?

Obviously we don't know, because the shop owner didn't respond to their request for comment. However, based on the information we've been given, elementary school level reading comprehension suggests that situation (1) is the correct one.

Pointing that out isn't anti-Semitism, but if you come into a thread specifically *expecting* and *searching for* anti-Semitism, you're going to see it everywhere, and I think that's what's happening here.

ArtikBanana [OP] , edited

Deleted by author

Avatar KoboldCoterie

The term 'Jewish' referring to both the followers of the religion and people of Hebrew descent in general makes it very hard (for me, at least) to keep track of a conversation like this, and any inaccuracies in usage of any related terms is a product of personal ignorance about the nuances of the words, not an attempt at veiled racism.

That said, the sign said 'our Jewish brothers', and didn't actually mention Israel at all; the presumption that it's referring to Israeli tourists is only mentioned later. Whether it was referring to Israelis in general, or orthodox jews as mentioned later in the article, we can only guess, but I don't think it really *matters*, as either way, it's discriminatory. I'm certainly not defending his response to the situation.

Avatar Philo

If you read the article you notice the investigation into the sign but nowhere do you see a report made of the stolen sled only an allegation by the owner. Not saying it didn't happen but which makes more sense, you guys are seeing what you want to see or your being foolish? your choice?

Avatar KoboldCoterie , edited

Given the owner could not be reached for comment, all the article has to go on is his sign. I'm choosing to assume he experienced a sleight that prompted (inappropriate) action on his part, and you're (apparently) choosing to assume he made the whole thing up just because he hates Jews and wanted to ban them from his shop.

I'm perfectly happy to change my view on this when the shop owner's account comes out if it proves warranted, but I'll point out that the article did not comment on the veracity of the claim at all, and if it could have been reasonably proven illegitimate, I assume it would have.

I don't think either of our positions here are wholly unreasonable, but I *do* think that trying to claim anti-Semitism any time anyone has a critical opinion of anyone from Israel, you're diluting the term and generally making it meaningless.

Edit: To be clear, I'm specifically referring to you calling me an anti-Semite because of my read of an article, not the assumption that the shop owner is an anti-Semite because of a ridiculous sign.

Avatar Deceptichum

You just can't stop with the personal attacks and name calling on other users can you?

Enkrod

Trotzdem bleibt er dabei, dass die jüdischen Gäste oft ihre Schlitten stehen lassen und nicht zurückbringen. „Wir wollen den täglichen Ärger nicht mehr und machen darum von unserem Recht Gebrauch, zu entscheiden, wer unser Eigentum mieten kann und wer nicht.“

For everyones sanity, just google it next time. The owner says in another article about it that several jewish customers did not return the sleds after renting them but just abandoned them when they were done sledding. Renting and not returning something constitutes theft.

Avatar Philo

Leaving a sled on a mountainside is rude but it is far short of theft. Tell you what. go to the police station there and report it as such and I bet you get a swift kick in the ass. Did the shop owner report the "theft?"

Enkrod

Why don't you google that instead of just assuming and having other people do the work for you to disprove you?

Avatar Philo

You didn't prove anything, There was no theft.

Avatar Deceptichum

Damn even the Jewish are being antisemitic to Israelis now?