PieFedI love when people, particularly Americans, claim Irish heritage, no matter how 'genetically' spurious such claims might be
submitted 6 days ago by
58008@lemmy.world
If you talk to most of my fellow micks, they'll whinge and moan about Yanks 'pretending' to be Irish. They'll take offence to it, like Irishness is little more than a fashion accessory to foreigners. They'll say that such Yanks are annoying and will scold them online for saying "I'm Irish" when they're several generations deep into being American.
Fuck all that noise. If someone wants to be associated with my wee island (and it *is* mine), I get a warm feeling in my chest like an internal hug. I don't care if the person has never had a single ancestor so much as set foot on Ireland, if they nevertheless wanna be Irish I'm thrilled to hear it. It makes me less self-conscious about my shite accent, it makes me feel like I could have friends in other countries before I even meet them. It's like a cheat code whereby I'm granted, up front and gratis, 30% of the required 'social ingratiation' mileage you usually need to put in before you start getting somewhere with a new friendship. There is literally no downside to it that I can see, and certainly no downside that has ever presented itself to me. The only way I could feel negatively about it is if I already have a casual hatred of Americans, which I don't.
If you don't believe that the cunty "ur not irish m8" attitude is borne of hatred for Americans, show me the reams of similarly-scolded Australians claiming Irishness. Show me the Iraqi with an Irish grandfather being told to shut the fuck up for claiming Irishness. Show me the hoards of Englishmen, even, being told the same. I have only ever seen or heard it directed at Americans.
The Australia example is much more powerful because it's one of the two places Irish people tend to go when they leave the British Isles, the other being the USA. We have been going to Oz in droves - voluntarily or not - for about as long as the USA has existed, so we claim a huge portion of the populace. The USA is still a brand-new country, in the grand scheme of history, so there're legit reasons for people to still feel like their families' previous countries are the more defining ones for their identity. There's nothing wrong with that. Unless you're American, apparently.
In closing, let me talk directly to my fellow spud-botherers: please shut the fuck up. I assure you, between the scolding Irishman and the Irish-loving Yank who never shuts up about it, you are the annoying cunt in this scenario. You make Irish people sound like völkisch wankers obsessed with the purity of their genes and the ethnic make-up of their country. Spend less time gatekeeping national identity and more time on avoiding heart disease, ya greasy hoors.
Truly have never gotten the gatekeeping or what purpose it serves.
True opposite of a gatekeeper. Tickle me Green lol.
As a American I only see this with other Americans. You never see Swedish people doing this, you never see Polish people doing this and you never see South Africans doing this.
I remember when ancestry kits became popular and everyone was walking around telling people about how they "1% Finnish, 3% native American and 25% Italian" etc... etc... even Elizabeth Warren had her blood tested to prove she was native American. I think she was like 2% native American or something.
There are more Irish Americans than Irish. By claiming Irishness they are effectively voting in favor of the idea, so I'm afraid it's just democracy that makes you wrong.
Although I agree with you I feel this is a truly unpopular opinion. No one gate keeps quite like a European.
Lol, so true.
The best skewering of this arrogance I've ever heard/read, is a rant by Charlie (to Emily/Miss Barham) in "The Americanization of Emily":
The incessant hubris of OECD members (even American expats!) is tiresome. Britain, France and Spain royally fucked the rest of the world for a few hundred years - they should be continually apologizing for the shit show we have today *because of them*.
Well...funny you should mention that...
This is why I find rioplatense people trying to claim to be european because 3 generations ago, their ancestors were in italy, spain or both.
yeah, countries that barely count as european, and your ass has been born in LATAM. STFU.
I love how you prove the point you were quoting. It's very tidy.
You just ticked all the boxes for weirdo race supremacist.
Now look here I’ll have you know that my husband is exactly one generation too far separated to benefit.
Wait... the Irish hate Americans more than the English now? Daaaamn. I mean, not like we don't deserve it, but so do they.
Americans fucking love an accent, especially English or Irish. You don't have to worry about that, we'd eat it up. (Sorry for assuming gender and sexuality but) men would want to be your friend and women would want to be with you. You'd do great here.
Tldr: thinking out loud about my relationship with Poland in a way that might be a cognate to how others feel about Ireland
Yeah, we Americans have an odd relationship with the countries our ancestors come from. My dad's grandparents were all from the region now known as Poland. He was always fond of Polish foods, I think because that's what he grew up with. His niece wore a borrowed traditional Polish dress for her confirmation. My aunts knit and are into Polish patterns. Lots of Polish love on that side of the family.
My mom's family has been in Appalachia since the 1800s. That side brings in Hatfield and McCoy blood and carries on those traditions by being a disfunctional mess. I don't associate with that side.
Given the choice, it feels better to lean into Polish stuff. Pierogi and cabbage+anything is a comfort food. Makes me feel closer to my dad. So, for me, it's not about the country Poland. It's about distancing myself from my asshole mom's family and embracing my dad's relatives.
Don't you worry your accent is great and your whiskey is great but your beer is mid.
Come to Newfoundland. As the one comedian says
I bet the accent's not the only thing true to Kilkenny!
You stay where your too, I'll come were yer at.
It's just that I find the heritage fetishism some Americans spew is a bit weird and overdramatized.
One of the problems in the US is a lack of temporal density. It hasn’t been here long enough to really have all that history. The people search for an identity elsewhere.
America is a nation of immigrants, from everywhere. In most countries, most people can trace the majority of their heritage to the region they were born in, back for hundreds of years.
I'm an American, I have one grandparent who I can trace back to the colonies. The other three lead to different countries within 150 years. Both of my paternal grandparents were immigrants, my wife is an immigrant. This isn't uncommon at all in America, and the "heritage fetishism" just strikes me as an acknowledgement of this. People want to learn about their roots.
The Irish stuff specifically is a bit weird though.
My parents referred to my siblings and I as “ketchup kids” because we were a little bit of everything mixed together at some point, so even being as fully American melting pot as possible, there’s a heritage identity there. It’s just something we tend to be conscious of.
My step dad is Irish and was adopted here when he was 4, but that’s the only person in my family with a direct single ethnic lineage for at least two generations.
There's definitely some heritage fetishism in the US especially around various holidays Americans associate with different cultures, but like OP said, the US is a relatively new and young nation in the grand scheme nations. Our national mythology is all about the different immigrants that came here and left their mark on the culture. As immigrants came over most of us had to hold onto the old country ties and connections, it's why so many cities have a Chinatown or a Little Italy, and these places took traditions we had from the home country and adapted them to what was available.
We all have a general implicit understanding that were all Americans, but the lineage we trace our families back to is why we say "I'm (Heritage XYZ)"
As for a lot of the really weird stuff especially around holidays (Cinco de Mayo, St. Patrick's day, etc) that's mainly just an excuse to get drunk and party and is definitely pushed on by the entertainment and hospitality industries to make more money.
I'm German (via my great-great-great-grandmother) so things like that don't bother me
The what's your ancestry conversations white people have with each other are annoying. You ever hear a white person try to have this conversation with an African-American? I have. Yeah it was extremely cringe. Then there's the claiming to be such percentage native. Somehow it's always Cherokee. This shit kills me.
They've got one in Honolulu. They've got one in Moscow, too. There are four of them in Sydney, and a couple in Kathmandu. ... Wherever you go around the world you'll find an Irish Pub.
Try living in the US; you'll change your tune. Piss boiled; take your upvote.
I got to go to Ireland last year. It was great. Everyone was lovely.
Except for the tiny roads, flanked by by penny walls with no shoulders, and traffic going 80kmh. That i didn't love.
Everything else was awesome, though.
5 million odd people in Ireland but over 10 million Irish passport holders in the world.
More to do with Brexit I think
I visited Ireland in 2019 and I fell in love with the place and the people.
It's one of the few places in the world where I just feel... home?
I don't really know how to explain it.
While there I also saw a lot of parallels between Ireland and Québec. The different language and culture in a sea of English, the religious undertones of the history with the British, etc.
I have absolutely 0 Irish genetic heritage, and I don't go about pretending I'm Irish, but there's certainly memories of Ireland in my heart.
Upvoted as unpopular.
I feel like Americans handle heritage in a really weird way, as if it was the main (sometimes, sole) component of identity. In a way that I don't see people in other places doing - not even places with heavy immigration, such as here in the Southern Cone.
Often putting those people into boxes. And expecting them to behave as someone who belongs to that box.
We are the only ones who put people into boxes…..lol. I don’t think so. We also look at heritage in a specific at because we’re a country of immigrants with so many different backgrounds. So many of us search for history and belonging that we see in every other country.
Please do not put words into my mouth. In no moment I said or even implied that only Americans put people into boxes.
Okay this is extremely off topic and I'm sorry in advance.
I'm not looking it up but I'm pretty sure this is grammatically correct. But it feels so wrong. And yet I'm pretty sure I've said it a million times, just never read it.
You shouldn't've mentioned it
There are legit reasons to mention it
*My name is mud.*
/s It's all I can make of my blood, mud. Irish, French, those 20 people that walked across Africa and almost died, yep, related to all those fucks.
*even you*
*I'm in your blood*
Go on and get fucked with your use of a term used to subjugate and lay claim to our lands and people.
No one cares about people claiming ancestry, people get annoyed when they act like it is a characteristic or set of stats you inherit.
As an ignorant person to this particular debate. What term are you referring to?
British Isles was a term pushed by the UK in order to aid their claim to our lands. We are no more part of the british isles than we are the south eatern icelandic archipelago.
Which part of Britain are you from?
British Isles isn't the same as Britain.
Specifically:
Hey, let's apply this logic to genders!
TIL The Irish have beef with us. Ehhhhhh, alright. I guess we can squeeze in a quick war before we get to whatever the fuck will trigger WWIII.
What? Did you guys not think this through? We're a nation of illiterate gun loving psychopaths that historically plays the role of world police.....but only when it suits us. We just willingly voted in a fascist rapist as our new (possibly forever) president. Our nightly local news stations websites have dedicated tabs for the recurring news, such as sports, weather, and mass shootings. We kill each other because nobody else is willing to go to war, and we're thirsty for war. There's a CONSTATE state of uneasyness over here, and feeling that at any moment, ANYONE could kill you....for like, NO reason. You think we wouldn't take online shit talking as a fun little side quest war? In, out, another nation set up with America military posts everywhere. Honestly, I'm always surprised the rest of the world hasn't collectively gone to war with us. Then I remember, we're the only nation in history to use nukes. Then we did it again a week later. Pretty sure our military command has the mantra of "Fuck em! Fuck who? All of em!"
Heh. Ireland wants to start shit? That's cute.
Wat
Congrats, this is the cringiest thing I've seen on this site.