Nato chief says Donald Trump comments 'undermine all of our security'

Nato chief says Donald Trump comments 'undermine all of our security'

submitted by MonsterMonster edited

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68269354

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dharwin

As a European, I wish a hearty "fuck you" to Trump, and anyone dumb enough to support him.

MrPoopbutt

As an American, same

dangblingus

In case anyone was wondering, Canada asked if we would still have protection if Russia invaded. Trump basically said we can go fuck ourselves. That should tell everyone everything you needed to know about Trump: HE'S. A. RUSSIAN. ASSET.

PsychedSy

US defenses don't work without our northern sibling.

dangblingus

That might worry someone who isn't a Russian asset.

PsychedSy

I don't think it's even possible.

Rodeo

Bye bye DEW line!

Dagwood222

GOP in 2016 We need Trump because the rest of the world is laughing at us.

GOP in 2024 Who cares what the rest of the world thinks about us?

Avatar DandomRude , edited

Tbh I think the world was already laughing in 2016. Even back then Trump was an absolutely ridiculous candidate. The real joke, though, is that even after his disastrous tenure as president and despite all of his criminal dealings, Trump is running again (and will probably even win the election). That would be funny if it were just about what this fact says about the American electorate. But unfortunately, the USA is still the strongest military power in the world. So it's not too funny for the rest of the world to have to worry about how to deal with an orange psychopath with a gigantic arsenal of weapons and enormous economic power. I therefore assume that at least the democratic rest of the world has stopped laughing by now.

Algaroth

Yeah, this shit stopped being funny a long time ago.

Dagwood222

I knew I was in the Twilight Zone when Trump, [a draft dodging rich boy who compared tomcatting around Manhattan in the 1970s with actually going to Vietnam ] talked about shit John McCain and wasn't lynched by the GOP

Algaroth

No, you see, Trump isn't a black man kneeling during the national anthem so he's not being disrespectful at all. Honestly I'm surprised they don't all have serious whiplash from that turn around.

Dagwood222

One of my favorites.

Conservative woman goes on The View TV show after the 'pussy grabber' tape comes out. One of the panelists keeps saying 'pussy' over and over.

Conservative woman asks her to stop using that offensive term.

Avatar Nakedmole , edited

Trump is obviously an agent of Putin, he is not even hiding it any more. Putin probably has videos of Trump abusing minors on Epstein island or something similarly compromising.

rusticus

No it’s worse than this. If it were based upon compromising info, Trump would be an UNWILLING participant. He is so invested in the Russian oligarchy money laundering for decades that he is a WILLING participant. He BELIEVES they are on the same team.

Avatar rustydrd

These two aren't even mutually exclusive. An idiot like Trump, upon getting blackmailed, could probably convince himself that the other guy would never release his secrets because they're such good friends.

Avatar GreatAlbatross

And it's entirely possible Russia has promised to be his plan B if his plans fail.

Avatar Nakedmole

That is of course also probable.

ohlaph

I'm guessing both.

Pretzilla , edited

Yes, the actual P-(edo) tapes

And plenty of financial money laundering kompromat too

AlgonquinHawk

“You gotta lay your bills” says the guy who hasn’t paid his bills in decades.

Vendul

Trump is a threat. Neutralize the threat.

ABoxOfPhotons

Unfortunately, he is a product of the American way, remove him from the equation and some other narcissistic, imbecile will eventually walk the same walk.

Unfortunately, trump is just a symptom of a much bigger problem.

Tyfud

Agreed. But sometimes, you need to remove the infection first before it can heal.

Removing trump from the equation removes their rallying point and sends them back into the shadows, where we will build a beacon of light to educate them out of.

Echo Dot , edited

They don't really have anyone else who has Trumps level of support, if Trump was eliminated I'm not sure who would pick up the mantle. He really is the catalyst for all of the problems, and these idiots are incapable of self-organization.

As hard as it is to believe, Trump is the brains of the operation, in as much as the operation has any brains at all.

Avatar ikidd

Sounds like a good way to winnow the gene pool a bit.

Echo Dot

Yeah but they probably won't get themselves organized in time for the upcoming election. The CIA supposedly have a heart attack gun, and I'm just saying no one would be that surprised if that's the way he went.

Pretzilla

So pootin is a product of the American way. Got it.

Avatar DandomRude

Are you still convinced that you live in the "best democracy in the world"?

LifeInMultipleChoice

Pirates had some of the best democracies. Being from the U.S., we have a representative democracy with representatives that get paid off legally (lobbying) to represent the rich more than the poor.

TokenBoomer

Why hasn’t Trump been labeled a terrorist and been sanctioned?

Siegfried

I guess its because roughly 40% of americans would still vote for him

JeeBaiChow

And people say Biden is the problem... Smfh at the size of the blinders trump supporters have on.

Avatar AutistoMephisto

That's nice of him to say. What's he going to do about it? So sick of all these spineless, yellow-bellied wimps saying how bad Trump is, and doing precisely fuck all. GROW A FUCKING BACKBONE, ALREADY, YOU COWARDS!

voltaa , edited

That's nice of you to say. What do you suggest he does about it? I'm so sick of these spineless, yellow-bellied Internet commenters saying that something should be done about it and suggesting precisely fuck all. OFFER A SOLUTION, ALREADY, YOU COWARDS!

Edit: Mocking tone aside, I'm serious, what can Jens realistically do? Kick the USA out of NATO? That's Trump's goal anyways. The issues with Trump are an internal American issue that can't be fixed by Norwegian politicians unfortunately.

Avatar pancakes

Also I just don't see an American getting in trouble over what can be considered a freedom of speech issue. It could also set a dangerous precedent that fascists could use to prosecute their political opponents.

FarceOfWill

What do you expect NATO to do? A drone strike??

Fizz

Really? Trump mentioning that most nato members do not meet the required defense spending undermines nato.

Yeah I'm sure that was what undermined nato and not the fact that America is the only threatening part of nato and the rest of the members haven't been contributing shit. I don't like trump but it's clear that nato needs a kick up the ass.

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steakmeout

You know how this isn’t 2015 right? People are no longer fooled by you guys creating accounts to concern troll.

rusticus

lol. Yeah I’m surprised he didn’t lead with “I used to be a Democrat…”

s0ckpuppet

It's gotten real damn bad in the last week

Fizz

"Everyone who pushes back is troll". Ok since this is such obvious trolling you should be able to give a good reason as to why comments from a presidential candidate undermines a 31 country military alliance more than 27 countries in (2017) and 21 countries in (2023) not meeting the minimum contribution requirements.

Please keep in mind that the nato member in this article who made the comments about trump does believe that the us will remain a committed nato ally regardless of election outcome.

Aurenkin

If you have to misrepresent what was said in order to feel ok about it, maybe you shouldn't feel ok about it.

Avatar Deceptichum , edited

The Republican said he had told allies he would "encourage" Russia to attack any Nato member that failed to meet the alliance's target of 2% of their GDP.

That’s not just complaining about not spending enough, it’s literally inviting an invasion.

And you’re saying that doesn’t undermine their security‽

hitmyspot

Or, by association, the security of all members.

Avatar Fizz

I'm saying that the comment undermines nato security less than the majority of nato not contributing to nato security.

If these nations cared so much about their security and cared about the nato alliance they would simply contribute the agreed 2% gdp.

Also trump said similar statements about exclusion from us protection when he was president. It didn't happen then and it's even less likely now that he is not president.

Fizz

They are inviting an invasion by neglecting their security. Can't blame America for not offering free protection forever.

P1r4nha

Trump's inviting the invasion. Let's not get things twisted. The US has plenty of ways to pressure other member states to contribute more spending to the alliance than threatening publicly to break the treaty and winking towards Russia.

The US demonstrates themselves as an unreliable partner. That's not in the interest of the US as they lose power globally, when countries rethink their dependence on them.

Avatar Fizz

The US has been pressuring nato for close to a decade. Trump has threatened nato by withdrawing troops and threatened the exclusion of us protection when he was actually the president. The result of this has been an increase in the amount of nato members meetings their minimum obligations. However the amount of members meeting the minimum requirements has only gone from 4/31 in 2017 to 10/31 in 2023. There are still many large countries in Europe not meeting their obligations.

Trump is using this as an issue to run on. He is not seriously inviting Russia to invade. It's funny to me that you suggest the us being unreliable while they contribute 71% of the spending and only ask that the other countries do the bare minimum. Countries SHOULD rethink their dependence on the us especially Nato countries. Nato countries should consider that they are entirely dependent on the us and consider contributing to their security alliance.

P1r4nha

It's one thing to say that a country not spending even 2% of the GDP should not be able to call Article 5. It's another thing to say you would "encourage [Russia] to do whatever they wanted to do" with said country.

Nevertheless it's signaling unreliability, because it would violate the treaty the US has signed. Plenty of NATO countries have helped out the US when they called article 5 on bullshit arguments and lies when invading Afghanistan.

But you're right. It's good European countries rethink their dependence. Too bad it comes with rethinking their alliances as well, with a belligerent USA.

FooBarrington

Donald Trump: "I'm inviting Russia to attack other nations if they don't do XYZ"

Other people: "Trump is inviting Russia to attack other nations"

You: "No, other nations are inviting the attack themselves by doing XYZ"

Do you not see how ridiculous this sounds?

Fizz

Obviously it would be best if trump didn't say something so unhinged but no one thinks trump is inviting Russia to invade.

Nato is undermining itself by doing nothing and putting their entire security burden on one country in a completely different continent. Trump is threatening nato. He is saying you better carry your weight or we may not save you.

I would argue that trumps threat should strengthen nato because if he is elected then his stance puts pressure on nato members to meet their obligations. Nato members meeting their obligations makes nato stronger. If nato members are worried about getting invaded and having no support from the us there is a simple solution contribute 2% gdp to military spending. If nato members are so worried about an invasion then they should probably participate in their military alliance.

FooBarrington

Obviously it would be best if trump didn’t say something so unhinged but no one thinks trump is inviting Russia to invade.

I 100% think that Trump is inviting Russia to invade. He's literally stated multiple times that if he were president, he'd try to end the Russian invasion by making Ukraine surrender. That's literally his stated goal. How is that *not* inviting Russia to invade?

And he also wants to pull the US out of NATO, which would weaken it and make it far easier for individual members to be attacked. Again, that's his stated goal. How does this *not* make Russian invasions much easier?

Avatar Deceptichum

No.

lurch , edited

No, it's the other part, with the meaning, he would throw them to russia. Leaving that part out would have been better.

Fizz

You are taking the the quote out of context. Yes he said exactly what was in the quote but the seriousness portrayed by this article was not there.

Do you honestly think the US and nato would let Russia invade a nato country? Because even the head of Nato doesn't think that would happen and the article mentions that. The only person saying that would happen is Biden and he is only saying it because it's great for his election run.

The article mentions the clear "hardball" approach that trump is taking to try and force nato members to pull their weight. Everyone in this comment section seems to be ignoring that and ignoring the comments from the head of Nato and taking trumps words as a binding contract. It's already clear from trumps existence that he says unhinged shit, I don't think we have any disagreements there. The disagreement I have with this article is the hypocrisy of saying Nato is undermined by trumps comments when majority of the members are freeloading with no intentions of meeting the requirements. The majority of nato members being useless has become such an issue that presidential candidates are running on the issue.

Mannimarco

That's not what he said though

Maalus

So you basically admit "if at any part a country hasn't reached the obligated 2% they shouldn't be defended by nato"?

Fizz

It wouldn't be a problem if it were a few countries but it's almost all of them.

Maalus

Not what I asked. You agree with Trump, which means you agree with what I asked you. Any nuanced opinion saying "countries might need to contribute more" aren't what he said.

Avatar Fizz

Yes I agree that countries that don't meet the 2% shouldn't be in nato. People could let it slide if it were a few countries but it's majority of nato and the countries can clearly afford it.

Tell me why the us should continue to meet its nato obligations when none of the other members do?

Maalus

Yeah, so you are just plain wrong and don't know what you are talking about.

Avatar agent_flounder

Found the person living in an alternate reality.

Wake me up if you actually wanted to have a good faith discussion otherwise take your ignorance of geopolitics elsewhere.

Avatar Fizz

While I highly doubt you have anything interesting or realistic to say on this issue my comments are in good faith if you want to discuss where we disagree. I've replied to a few other comments if you want to read over them for more explanation of my reasoning.

voltaa

Really? Trump mentioning that most nato members do not meet the required defense spending undermines nato.

As a member of a NATO military that doesn't meet the targets for spending, I agree this doesn't undermine NATO, it's just the truth that we need to start pulling more weight monetarily.

BUT that's not the point and you missed key details about what he said that absolutely DOES undermine NATO, such as:

"I said: 'You didn't pay? You're delinquent?'... 'No I would not protect you, in fact I would encourage them to do whatever they want. You gotta pay.'"

So you're showing that you either didn't read the article, didn't understand the article or are being willfully ignorant of the article.

Avatar Fizz

As a member of a NATO military that doesn’t meet the targets for spending, I agree this doesn’t undermine NATO, it’s just the truth that we need to start pulling more weight monetarily.

You dont think Nato members not ever meeting spending targets undermines NATO? Europe would be able to protect themselves if they met the targets and the US would be a bonus to NATO not a requirement.

BUT that’s not the point and you missed key details about what he said that absolutely DOES undermine NATO, such as: “I said: ‘You didn’t pay? You’re delinquent?’… ‘No I would not protect you, in fact I would encourage them to do whatever they want. You gotta pay.’”

I think that comment does far less damage to NATO than the members who do not meet minimum requirements. The US has been trying to get Nato to contribute to their own security for a long time. Trumps plan to get this done has been to threaten Nato members with removal of US security. This seems to have worked better than other methods tried. Trump is not saying this to encourage russia to attack Nato, trump is saying this to force Nato members to meet their obligations.

I do not understand how you can look a nation asking the US to defend them for free and the US saying no and think that the US is one putting them at risk. They put themself at risk because they choose to spend no money on defense obligations.

Avatar CileTheSane

Trump is not saying this to encourage russia to attack Nato

Literally in the Trump quote:

in fact I would encourage them to do whatever they want.

jas0n

You see, Trump never means what he says. It's all 5d chess and *you* don't know how to interpret all that vagueness.

Avatar Fizz

To understand why it is not a call for russia to attack nato you must know the context. In the clip Trump mentions Nato being broken before he "fixed" it. In 2016 only 5 countries met the minimum nato obligations (US, UK, Greece, estonia, Poland).

Trump recalls a conversation he had with a Nato leader. He says the leader asked him "if we dont pay are you still going to protect us" trump replied "absolutely not". This is a huge shock to the nato leaders as America has always asked them to pay but never forced their hand like this. They ask again "if we dont pay and we are attacked by Russia will you still protect us?" then you get the harsher response from trump.

No I would not protect you, in fact I would encourage them to do whatever they want. You gotta pay. full quote since you left out the important part.

Europe is vulnerable to an attack from Russia they know this. They MUST meet their alliance obligations to ensure their security its that simple. Trump is telling the European leader this to scare them into meeting their obligations. Russia didnt hear about this until trump mentioned it at his rally a few days ago. After all this happened years ago the Nato contribution increased and states meeting their obligation goes from 5 to 11.

Please explain to me how that is trump inviting war? Trump isnt asking Nato to freeload. He is asking them to meet their obligations and remain in the alliance with the US.

Avatar CileTheSane

Please explain to me how that is trump inviting war?

Sure, when Trump says:

I would encourage them to do whatever they want

"Them" is Russia, and "whatever they want" is to invade. So Trump is saying "I would encourage {Russia] to [Invade]."

I'm not going along with your "he doesn't mean what he says" BS. He is running for government office, if he doesn't mean what he's saying then he shouldn't say it. I'm not going to play "guess what the politician *really means* when they say something. Maybe they mean the opposite. who knows?"

rusticus

Let me guess: you “used to be a Democrat but…”

LOL.

Fizz

I hate this sentiment of "you don't agree with us on every issue.. you must be on the other side"

This is a discussion forum.

rusticus

Your opinion is so out of the realm of reality that many are questioning your intentions here, including myself. Maybe start with a comment that has some geopolitical accuracy.

Fizz

Many people including yourself are uninformed and swayed by headlines.

rusticus

lmao. Read the room bra. No one here is buying your delusional bullshit. I’m not swayed by “headlines” I’m actually, you know, listening to the words that come out of the orange shitstain’s mouth. Please continue to waste your time responding though. It’s not like you have the self awareness to believe no one here agrees with you.

lemmingrad

NATO empowered nazis in western europe. If our politics were not manipulated by the United States I am not sure we'd be allies.

LemonLord

Trump is for peace in Ukraine! Democrats are warheads and genocide helpers. Nobody needs.