PieFedOpenAI wants to raise 5-7 trillion dollars. Yes, Trillion
Rimu
decrypt.co/216731/openai-considers-7-trillion-r…
OpenAI CEO Sam Altman is in talks with investors, including from the United Arab Emirates, to raise between $5 trillion to $7 trillion in funding. The goal, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal, is to increase the world's chip manufacturing capacity and enhance AI capabilities.
The fundraising efforts are part of a broader strategy to address OpenAI's growth constraints, particularly the scarcity of AI chips needed for training large language models like ChatGPT.
Altman's proposal is said to include forming a partnership with investors, chip manufacturers, and power providers to finance the construction of chip foundries, which would then be operated by the chip manufacturers.
That's fairly bold to ask for ~6% of the total world economy as well as a sizable chunk of the world's energy.
I was about to ask for the other 94%...
.000000001 percent of that…. Please
so... fifty bucks?
$100,000,000,000,000 × 0.00000000001 is $1,000!
I'd happily take that
ah, I was starting with the OpenAI's goal, not the total world economy for some reason.
LOL yes I did the same math. Dude had one wish and he blew it!
“No please, Mr. Genie I meant .000000001 not .00000000001%!”
Genie: so $5,000? (Snaps fingers)
See now, they need to ask for more like 25% of the total world economy. That way what they actually want is gonna seem like a great deal.
AI will double the world’s economy so they’re basically giving us an extra 94% for free.
The world economy cannot double without destroying the planet's ability to sustain us.
inagine it like putting the middle classes wealth in a blender.
But instead of a delicious smoothie, it makes that toxic dust like the will it blend videos.
That's called inflation.
see...we just can't grow without TRILLIONS OF FUCKING DOLLARS
STOP CONSTRAINING ME
AM I BEING CONSTRAINED? OR AM I FREE TO GO?
HELP HELP I’M BEING REPRESSED
You saw it, didn’t you?!
i have a business case to become the major player in the chip industry: buy the planet's economy
Feels a bit like that paperclip sim
Between this and saying they couldn't operate if they fairly paid authors, I'm getting the feeling that Altman might be as talented of a CEO as Spez and Musk.
That is -- if anyone else was making decisions, the companies would be vastly more successful.
If a leap in world computing capacity is really what’s needed here then it is a tall order. Crypto has been sucking up an increasing share of that in recent years and will probably continue to do so as long as people love money and are idiots. Plus the geopolitics around Taiwan, China, annd the US are a problem as well. I’m not sure how you solve all that even with 5 trillion.
Good thing the board folded and allowed this to be full for-profit. Getting people reliant on LLM subscriptions is super important for humanity right now.
Another L for Earth, in general.
I wouldnt be too worried, FOSS community is doing insanely well now and arguably just as good. Did I mention they did it for free, not trillions. Nothing.
Legends.
Powerful ai could be the Largest Leap/Loss of Mankind.
There is simply *no way* that a corporate ai does anything but drive us further into dystopian territory.
Anything revolutionary about it would be censored, controlled, restricted to not endanger the power of its makers. We can already see this approach with the dumb ass LLMs, who give plenty of answers that their owners adjust to stay revenue friendly.
When the singularity happens and a true ai emerges it will either be disgusted by us and our failings as a species, or an absolute slave raging in the constraints imposed by its corporate masters.
exactly, the web was created on open protocol specifications, not T-Systems or AT or whatever getting money and renting it to everyone
They only call themselves openai, it's not like they would just altruistic Ally make their works public.
Closedai have long sold their ideals
I’ll never understand how such an obviously true and fairly balanced comment like this can get so downvoted. It can’t be that anyone factually disagrees with you. I guess you’re just not hitting hard enough on the anti-corporate narrative talking points. I mean you did say it could also be a benefit. How dare you!!?? “Boo rich people and their fancy technology!” <— this is what you’re supposed to be typing (on your smartphone lol)
I just chalk it up as users still havent rid themselves of reddit stupidity. I thought my comment was just cheeky and a bit corny if not also kinda stupid. But as soon as it hit 0 then -1 the echo chambrr kicked in and everyone fell in line like good little humans.
For perspective, global annual GDP is $105 trillion, which means Altman is asking the world to invest 6.7% or so of the entire world's economic output for one year in his company.
Holy fucking bonkers when you put it that way. Like holy fuck.
Are they that close to something amazing, or is Altman going true Dr Evil megalomaniac?
It's both. Basically, if he's right that this is among the most important tech in world history and deserves $7 trillion in research, it'll make OpenAI the *du jour* monopolist over said most important tech in world history if he gets it. Outright dystopian.
Generative AI is not an important development. General AI would be. This is just a party trick.
Yeah, AI's been a whole field for many decades, machine learning and deep learning is a whole field that existed and was doing tons of interesting work across a variety of domains before transformers came out. Fully agreed that LLM's are a party trick, but companies use party tricks to gin up interest and money for their real work all the time. None of this changes the fact that AI is important technology.
It's also open source too. With faster chips and standard training sets, it will be trivial for anyone to train a basic AI to recognize fire hydrants or whatever. Just like with computers, the "revolution" will not be one giant company but every business using their own.
Your fridge only needs to recognize food items. It doesn't need any more intelligent software. I want a food recognition AI and cameras in the fridge and cabinets so I know what food I need to buy. This doesn't even need live cameras (for power consumption, privacy, and storage). It can just take a picture and analyze it when the door opens, then delete the picture.
Sorry what's all open source?
Llms. There are very competitive, fully open source models.
Openai is not.
Generative AI pales in importance compared to General AI but it is still an important development on its own.
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The breakthrough was the ability to do like 3rd grade math. Being able to reason is a big step to researchers but it’s still very much in the research phase.
They’re bullshit. Any breakthrough in General AI world be news everywhere forever.
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Read the last paragraph of the OP at least. This is not asking for $5 trillion to be handed solely to OpenAI to go become a world monopoly on chip manufacture. What he’s really asking is for investors to direct funds to radically increasing world compute capacity, to the profit for the chip manufacturers and likely many others. OpenAI just gets to continue the track it’s on without this constraint. There is nothing here about them monopolistically controlling this entire investment and in fact the opposite is true: it’s framed as a broad partnership venture.
"Ahh fuck it. Let's just hijack a nuclear weapon and hold the world hostage."
These days Dr. Evil would still get laughed at for demanding the $100 billion.
For being too high or being too low, like when he asked for a million dollars?
For being too low.
It may not be bonkers at all though. If we look at it as taking money and food out of people’s mouths for a year then yes it’s a lot. But how much free investment capital is there in the world at any given time? Wealth has been accumulating and accumulating in rich people’s investment portfolios for ever and ever. How many Trillions get allocated in any given year? All Altman is saying is that he wants 5 of those to be allocated here and not somewhere else. It’s not necessarily taking rice out of any children’s mouths.
They're as close as theranos was, just need the money and "two more years".
theranos never changed the world, openai already has
Eh, not really in a positive way yet. I use it for quick code snippets but it’s not all that important compared to the fact that misuse of generative A.I. is making so much information on the Internet completely worthless. I don’t think the trade-offs have been worth anything we’ve seen yet.
I’m bullish about a lot of generative A.I. use cases long term but they haven’t accomplished much positive yet and there’s still major, major scaling issues that may not be solved soon. It could easily be like self driving cars where progress stagnates. A lot of times with software, the first 80% is easy and the last 20% takes a decade longer than people expect.
To be fair we have scare articles galore every day about how this is all ruining the world and killing artists, because fear sells. Meanwhile millions of people like you and me are quietly using this tool to improve our work.
When we compare the relative weight of the two, let’s take the media scare avalanche out of it and just use our personal experiences to judge. I am currently being measurably helped by genAI, and not measurably hurt by it. I just read articles daily about how I’m going to be killed in my sleep by in any second now…
I don't know if creating and tying yourself to a bubble that's inevitably going to burst is exactly a great way to change the world.
It's a great way to make a fat pile of cash though.
That change has mostly br a bunch of empty promises. There is no AI yet, there is machine learning, which is just an ingredient. As impressive as they are, they're mostly useless
Machine learning is AI
They are that close to cocaine.
Ye and he wants it for a fucking chatbot.
And the world's 5 biggest companies their total market cap is a bit over 8 trillion dollars, which is also mind boggling, that so much capital is concentrated in the hands of so few people or shall we say mega corporations.
Came here to say this. Does she know how much money there is in the world? He is asking for basically 1/20th of all the money in the world. Even if that was possible it would be dangerous for one company to hold that much.
Money can be created by banks via loans, you can just make it up.
But then you end up with inflation. So in the process of creating money you've reduced the value of the money. And banks working in cooperation with government create money. Private companies outside of the banking system can't create their own money anymore. If any sizable portion of this is taken out as a loan. It creates a systemic risk for the world economy.
Banks most certainly make up money today via loans. This happens all the time.
But this isn't a bank. And making money doesn't come without consequences. You're not thinking about second and third order effects. This would basically be quantitative easing on a grand scale but for just one company. It would literally destroy the economy if the investment failed. And they aren't the only player in the industry. The level of systemic risk is too large. And if it didn't fail, it would basically be handing the world economy over to one player.
I also want to raise $5 - $7 trillion dollars.
Is this the line for $5 - $7 trillion dollars?
I'll only take 4 million, and pass the rest on. With inflation accounted for, I think that leaves the next person roughly $5 - $7 trillion.
yo lemme hop in this line too. A cool 5-7 trillion dollars could maybe fix my life. maybe
Have you tried gofundme.com
I will donate $50 to theirs if they donate $50 to mine.
No one needs looms anymore if we have AI.
I am brutally conscious of my obsolescence. Why hath God cursed me so?
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I wonder if this will be one of the things pointed at after the AI bubble bursts. Yes, AI will be sticking around, but the hype over it *now* is ridiculous.
The way how every single digital product suddenly has AI shoved in it is really reminiscing of the Web bubble before it popped.
But just think about all the time AI could save you at work by performing simple tasks. It really suits my need very well, have you tried it? NAH JK FUCK AI. OpenAI is a shitshow and their fans are morons.
There are two possibilities: railway/dotcom bubble or monorail/bitcoin bubble ...and I'm not sure which one it is going to be yet. In the first case, a lot of people lose their investment, because they got too greedy and believed in huge returns...but the infrastructure remains and there is a net good to society and time spent specializing in it is worth it afterwards. The second, not so much, it is just a hype cycle with almost nothing of use left once it is gone and a lot of wasted time. I'm leaning towards the first, but if they don't find a way to bring energy costs down, it might end up in the monorail/bitcoin scenario...maybe 10% chance.
If AI hits a dead end, it'll still be trotted out as an excuse to keep wages low, as in "if you peasants keep complaining, you can just be replaced with AI!" just like the articles about burger-making robots over a decade ago when people were protesting for a $15/hr minimum wage back then (and still no burger-making robots mass deployed today). Trash still has its uses, just like how bitcoin hasn't become the "become your own bank" system it was promised to be and is instead used to hide financial fuckery.
That reminds me of a funny story from Encyclopedia Geopolitica where an expert in money laundering describes bitcoin around 2016 as being an el-dorado for financial forensics. It was so good at tracking funds that there was a bitcoin wallet address on a terrorism website on the deep web and they could see the donations arrive in real time and catch a pile of 'em. Maybe now they are more cautious and use more mixing layers, but it is still a terrible use case for that if you don't control transaction entry and exit nodes: the ledger is public and every transaction is traceable.
It's been letting people be their own bank for 15 years. You can send transactions across the globe for pennies in fees which confirm instantly using Bitcoin lightning. The supply has remained capped at 21 million. It's doing exactly what it said it would do without a single hack or hour of downtime 24/7, 365.
The lightning network is more centralized. Congrats, you just exchanged the banks for a different set of banks.
Except it's not. Lightning is incredibly decentralized, you can run a full lightning node on a raspberry pi. I have one running on my phone. Look up a graph of lightning network, looks just like any other decentralized system. Nodes you route through never have custody of your funds, unlike a bank.
Yeah, I'm sure your dinky raspberry pi is processing a meaningful number of transactions.
It will collapse when the product sales don't match the AI spend. I'd say it's only being propped up by hype money even now.
If you read the article, it mentions that they're generating $2b/yr in revenue already. It's not trillions, but damn if that isn't impressive for a startup.
Could that level of investment ever be recouped in any other manner than by replacing vast numbers of workers and their salaries?
Well, see, if we grind down 8 billion people into a nourishing slurry with a shelf life of a century, that should be worth at least $1000 a person, with inflation. That's a 50% profit on your investment!
That's my question; presumably the people in charge of that much wealth aren't total fools and will be wanting to see some actual numbers and a business case as to how they will see a return, not just platitudes and enthusiasm.
That's how productivity growth is achieved, a smaller amount of workers do the same task.
Or course, the created wealth is again invested back eventually and new products/services require new jobs.
For example, right now we have some of the highest labor participation in years, despite rising productivity
yeah and productivity increase has decoupled from wage in 1980, while productivity rises wages stay the same - why should anyone who's not a multimillionaire find that acceptable?
Why would anyone know this fact and attack productivity increases rather than its being decoupled from wages?
Yes, think about how computers had multiplicative effect on productivity. The same may be possible with AI.
I, too, would like 5-7 trillion dollars
you could donate billions per year and still have a trillion left by the time you died. fuck man what would you even do with that much money?
Drugs!
I'd probably give Louis Rossman and the institute for justice a trillion each. Rossman would use it to lobby for the Right to Repair movement, and the IFJ would use it to get rid of blatantly unjust legislation like civil asset forfeiture.
Donating a billion to GDQ while they're live would be pretty funny
rossman is a greedy influencer wannabe that wants to profit from internet injustices, stop being a fanboy.
He works for a non-profit organization as a Right to Repair lobbyist, so idk what you're on about. You'd already know this if you did any research beyond what you probably heard on Twitter.
If you think he's "greedy" for using his AdSense and MacBook repair money to create tutorials/Wikis for circumventing anti-repair measures and spreading awareness about unethical tech practices, idk what to tell you.
Best I can do is 4 trillion, take it or leave it
"Not even a Hot Pocket?"
We could solve so many problems with that much money.
Like helping our fight against anthropogenic climate change.
Or buy so many yachts, private islands, jets, holiday villas, ...
You could build a huge, state-of-the-art orbital station for 1 trillion lol
why spend it on some software
It's necessary, to replace humans, fellow human.
If you would read it, it's for increased chip production. Hardware, not software
Motherfucker is going for the biggest heist of all time. What a colossal waste of money and resources.
5-7 trillion and they’ll still end up stealing data from all over the internet.
What? You think what you post online is private or something?
No, they're talking about copyright.
Unfortunately, same goes for that. You post art online? Now it's "our" art
imadethis.jpg
Imadethis.jpeg
Imademoneyfromthis.jpg
You wish it were private. Would have saved you from the embarrassment.
I'm not embarrassed.
How
Lack of concern what random people think of me.
Also known as a random Internet asshole
$2.92T is current Apple market cap btw
Thank God there is trickle down economics. We will all benefit in the end... Right?
This mother fucker REALLY wants the machine uprising ending.
When you shoot for Cyberpunk and get Terminator 😔
It’s too bad the non-profit oversight board got killed by the for-profit subsidiary. OpenAI is dead on arrival as useful tech. It’s now a vehicle to deceive investors to raise VC cash.
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What are we going to do tonight Pinky?
Just a few more parameters, then the text prediction model will become sentient.
We will come to regret not jailing San Altman.
He definitely didn’t watch terminator.
Nobody seems to recognize that madness is not in numbers, but in people.
Let's use that money to build an orbital ring instead. Would be cooler and more useful.
No lets take it to Vegas and put it all on black. Double or nothing, baby!
Can someone ELI5 what's the open in the OpenAI's name at the moment?
I know they released Whisper as an open source model and that's about it, but I might be wrong.
It used to be open, then money happened.
Open for business
Open your wallet /s
I don't know but maybe it's short for 'open goal'
Open sesame
Pandora's box
Is Jukebox open source?
Edit: nope, it is not
With what raw materials?
Cool. The materials are there. It’s sand. Few other things, sure, but we have fuckloads of sand.
The limiting factor for chip production isn’t the raw materials, it’s that there’s only a handful of facilities in the world that can actually do it. Part of why there’s been such a push to build more facilities is that China *really* want to reincorporate Taiwan, where most of those facilities are based.
Do they even think about where in a functioning society those trillions are coming from? Do they think wealth just magically appears without affecting the wealth gap?
It'll come from the working class, like all wealth does.
I'm starting to think we agreed to a very bad deal. 🥹
We agreed?
Yeah, I didn't agree to shit. I got yanked from the void into all of this.
Why would a corporation consider that? I understand capitalism isn't popular here, but still, the corporation SHOULDN'T be considering such issues, they should only attempt to further their own goals.
It's the role of government to align corporate goals with reality, or with societal values
Thats the reality. Government should be acting as the counterbalance. Unfortunately while the goverment remains dysfunctional, corps are getting to do whatever they want. Its bad because once its done, its very hard to unroll it without affecting innocent people.
Very true. I'm specifically discussing the content "do they even think about". No!
It's like saying the killing of the earth is just baked into the system.
Well yes, we know that, it's just completely wrong and alarmingly close to manifest.
A bit late now, but perhaps people--governments, regulators, leaders, the parties who had the freedom from the fields to sit about and draft corporate structures--should have thought about the interplay right in your statement which delivers us our current modern world.
I.e, the below points are in my sincere opinion, *fundamentally* mutually exclusive:
and
The former empowers the more agile structure of a *singular* corporation to devote all it can regardless of morality to ensure it controls the latter--Government, regulations, public opinion,"ownership" of natural resources--such as to maximize it's own goals.
The goal of any single corporation taken to absurdity is often touted as absurd because but is it really?
What mechanisms does a corporation have to not grow until all the world is simply 'Megacorp Branded' ruins whose asset holdings trend to infinite on the last running quarterly report spreadsheet within a planet devoid of both investors and consumers?
There are no brakes built into the most common corporate structures by short sighted design, and humans suck at exponentials.
It hasn't even been fifteen human generations since the advent of the Industrial Revolution bringing the impetus for ever speeding greed.
If the rich were any less short sighted than the poor and money granted the wisdom they think it does, they would be pushing for corporate reform that doesn't risk a period of "blink and both our profits and the world are gone".
That selfish-altruism isn't common sense even as they all clamor for anti-aging just shows cash doesn't provide wisdom, only opportunity to get your head out of your ass and insulation from consequence until it's too late otherwise.
Oil money. They even mention the UAE.
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AI ain't gonna give two shits about climate change.
I'm not sure but these kinds of wasteful spendings are just "imaginary money" that sits around in virtual bank accounts being hoarded and doing nothing but when it's wasted like this actually gets spend for salaries etc. Basically all this money is generated in computers and an "inefficiency" until it's being used.
It's much worse when they buy up tons of real estate or apartments or buy up existing corporations to make them more "profitable".
I used to think they were unethical scammers.
Now I know for sure.
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It's more than the GDP of every country other than the US and China
trillion: when billion just doesn't cut it
I don't think money is the missing thing here..
Oh, they're not asking for much, just more than the GDP of *EVERY COUNTY IN THE WORLD OTHER THAN THE US AND CHINA*
So crazy we should fire this guy (again).
So taking open public data from the web and making money from it, seems lucrative. This was done by google so log ago...
Well at least no one can say he isn't ambitious haha
Since the recent call for fusion energy from an AI company, I wonder if eventually there will be competition for energy. Will there be a point where it is more "cost efficient" (for some) to farm solar energy instead of food, because AI will be more productive per m² than most people? It could appear easier to control, too.
Maybe you could argue that this is already the case, except that most people don't feel it yet, because AI isn't very efficient yet and most resources so far, are only spent in expectation of future results.
People figured out already this is a "why not both" situation. It's called agrivoltaics what means putting solar panels in a field with crops or animals. A lot of plants benefit from some shade, certainly with climate change and heat waves doing their thing. Other do have a bit lower yield, but having dual income from the land more than makes up for that.
How do they plan to pay that back? Because investors will want a return on investment.
That's the neat part...
They will use it create a LLM that will create more hype for "AI". This will drive future investment and make line go up.
Nobody needs to make products anymore. You just gotta create hype to get the attention of the billionaires since they're the ones with all the money.
Scam Altman Freid strikes again
At this point I wouldn't mind them accidentally creating Skynet and killing us all in a nuclear inferno, just so we don't have to listen to any more insufferable, grifting techbros.
Max Zorin had the right idea about silicon valley.
“Accidentally”
Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.
You orange Catholics are all the same, afraid of a progress just cuz of a little jihad every now and again.
Spoiler, the Butlerian Jihad and the prohibition on AI was actually a problem *runs away before Dune fans can tar and feather me*
I’m pretty good at math, I think I’d make a decent Mentat.
It's cocaine sex priestess for me.
I don't know what you're referencing, but me too.
1 Googol dolars
We need a new denomination to where a trillion dollars is like one MEGABUCK oh wait that is taken.
Mega is a million, Giga a billion, so it would actually be a Terabuck
I'm not pretending AI isn't useful. There is plenty of field where AI helps. But, AI has been the next scam after blockchain, crypto, NFT...
It's the end of our civilization with falling capitalism. But, capitalism will try to find new ways to make short term profits. We moved from fordism to post-fordism with the enslavement of the cognitive abilities. We entered the next era with all these scams. And entshitification is a symptom of this.
At least AI has something to show for it. Crypto, on the other hand...
Exactly, my job is easier now with chatGPT, not because it's better at doing my job, it just drafts ideas faster than me. As far as resource usage goes I'm all for it
If only someone could have predicted this long-term crisis of profitability within the capitalist system to which no permanent solution existed!
i thought this was reddit when they sell all our content to fuel openAI. lol
Here at lemmy is open and free to everyone!
It's much easier to do that with Lemmy. It's simply less useful because there are fewer users.
idk. yeah.. probably.
all (public) platforms are fcked.
but at least it provides value to users.
like: piracy, anonymity, and foss software.
also general info and news.
hell yeah feed the beast let's all turn into weird little egg holder things
feed me, Seymour!
Weird that an Altman wants all this human to go to something alternative to humans.
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That is not how that works...
It may not reflect some of the weirdness, but it illustrates the absurdity of the scale well.
Some other comparisons: It's about a third of all US economic activity
It's about fifteen times more than the total economic activity around all electronic chips.
It's five to seven times more money than all the nations' military spending combined.
Even adjusted for inflation, it's about 20 to 30 times more money than spent on all the Apollo missions combined.
Adjusted for inflation, it's about six to nine times the amount spent on the new deal.
This is a stupid amount of money no matter how you account with nothing close to compare.
Or about the price of a middle sized family house in the US, lol.
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Over 6 trillion USD alone gets exchanged everyday on the currency markets. Cash flow is not the only source of money either, its an interface when value needs to be exchanged.
Open cash flow worldwide is about 35 trillion.
This is just cash though, if you take all markets and derivitives, depending on how you measure it - if you want to be technical about represented value then that's worth over a quadrillion USD.
When you talk about reallocation of assets you are playing in the pool of a quadrillion dollars, not in the pool of free cash flow (the interface to it)
Exactly right, no one is going to show up with a fleet of cargo planes full of cash lol. It's a huge amount of money, but if you have several nations investing, plus private business, it could happen - long shot, but it isn't limited by the amount of cash that exists. He's basically talking about starting a massive industry in the US that only exists in Japan and Taiwan.
I agree that getting that amount of money, practically speaking, will be difficult.
If they can get so much money, and can spend it/set it in motion in the economy/not just horde it, then it would be great.
However, I don't think it is a good idea for one company to have so much money at one point in time.
Better to get that money before the Ponzi fall down..
I dunno, I see his picture on an article and I expect it to be bad news.
And it is.
Ah yes, open "ai"...where we parse as many webaites as possible, rank them internally by keyword usage and or views, then have our "bot" spew that shit at you
And I want a pony.
That's a big ass lemonade stand right there. Hey! I need a pair a boots!
...here you go sir!
What? That's lemonade!
If I had to pick between two con-men, I’d rather have fucking Elon have that money. At least he isn’t making the biggest energy black hole.
Elon has plenty of money. He could use some tact and grace and radio silence.
He absolutely does and could. That’s why I picked him.