PieFedLinux Desktop reaches New All time high. 4.45%(+0.4) đđ§
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sparky@lemmy.federate.ccWindows 11 is a strong motivator. I suspect like many other people, the only reason I was keeping Windows around was gaming. But thanks to Proton and the Steam Deck, the number of games in my library that wonât run on Linux is vanishingly small. I deleted my Windows partition a few months ago and havenât looked back.
Install Linux or buy a Mac, fuck Windows.
Gaming works pretty damn well as far as I'm concerned, the few that I can't get to work are irrelevant.
I'm keeping Windows around for work... fuck Autodesk and fuck Dassault. So I am trying to get a VM with GPU pass through to work (had it working once but then I screwed it up and now I can't seem to get it working again).
Having done the transition some months ago, there is still some stupid shit one has to deal with (especially, but not only, for games NOT from Steam) at times, more than in Windows, but it's all so much better than it was before and by now quite close to the Gaming experience in Windows.
Then on top of that there are all the the longer term peace of mind things versus Windows: upgrading your Linux costs zero, changing your hardware won't invalidate your Linux "OEM License" (plus it will probably just boot up as normal with if you just move your SSD to a whole new machine rather than throw you into driver nightmare), games that work in today's Linux will keep on working in tomorrow's and so on - this is actually massive advantage of Linux versus Windows which is seldom talked about: more often than not, hardware migration with Linux is to just move your SSD to a whole new machine, with all the stuff just the way you like it and all you files, and it just boots with and keeps on working.
(PS: Especially relevant for gamers who have to upgrade due to the increasing demands on hardware from the gaming side of things even though the hardware is fine for everything else they do in that machine, and who would rather that all those other things they've installed and kept on using rather than uninstall after "finishing the game", just carry on configured just the way they like it and working just the way they've always did, even when they do upgrade the hardware because of games. People who are fine with hardware dedicated to gaming and with replacing the whole thing - hardware and software - for newer games, just get XBoxes or similar consoles, not PCs)
Linux not only saves you from enshittification, keeps control in your hands and preserves your privacy, it's also a reliable and functional long term OS layer for your hardware that doesn't force hardware upgrades on you.
I dicked around with the VM route for a while and could never really get it working 100% to my liking. There was always a trade-off. I ended up just getting a second PC and tucking it in a cabinet out of sight. When I need Windows I just use remote desktop to connect to it.
Don't buy a Mac. That's more limiting than a Windows. But yeah install linux.
More limited, but also less enshittified than Windows.
If you want a good, well-polished experience for certain creative workloads, or even programming, MacOS is great and their Apple Silicon CPUs are excellent.
If you want to do ANY gaming besides WoW (which surprisingly enough has always had great MacOS support) or you can't stand the lack of configurability, Linux is immediately the superior choice by far.
I would like to add that if you want to do any real customization of your setup don't get mac either.
Even though I do hate Apple as a company, they do make great products, they just charge out the ass for them
Nah, even their hardware consists out of laptops with screen protection falling off, phones bending themselves into breakage and cables with the sensitive connectors on the outside so they'll break often.
Their OS is surprisingly buggy, too.
They're actually just shit all around, in my experience.
I dislike Apple as a company but I love Apple hardware. Old Macs are my favourite thing to run Linux on.
The whole business model of Apple is to force a hardware upgrade cycle on you and force all your devices to be in that same ecosystem.
I mean, I can see the advantages of it on the short term, but on the longer term having stuff that keeps on working even as always even in older hardware (or you just install new hardware under it and it just recognizes it and keeps on working) is a massive benefit versus a $1500+ bill every two five years and having to migrate your stuff.
RexiosItâs more like 6-7 years and the migration tool basically clones your drive in 15 minutes
thingsiplayI'm Linux user since 2008 and as much as I want to agree with you, I can't. Even if Mac is much closer to Linux with its BSD roots, I probably would choose Windows over Mac. Why? Because Windows is much more open and less restrictive than OS X. And there is the support and compatibility of Steam games (and games in general) in Windows. The hardware repair ability is terrible on Apple too.
Yes, Microsoft is bad, Windows is bad; so is Apple and OS X. I personally can't live with the restrictions Apple has.
Mac?! Darwin no, thatâs doing the opposite of liberating yourself and it has less gaming than Linux Iâd say.
It does. Gaming on mac is a pain. Gaming on linux is a much better experience, and has much better support at this point. Apple really alienates developers.
I didnât mean for gaming specifically, probably should have used a transition statement. For creative and professional use cases, macOS is still far far better than Windows. For gaming yeah thatâs not your platform, Linux is.
I donât think âliberatingâ your machine is the reason people are just now getting mad at windows.
- âI can't choose when to update, anymoreâ
- âI can't uninstall all sorts of things, anymoreâ
- âI can't even use my perfectly fine laptop of 6 years old, anymoreâ
It's all about liberation, I'd say.
âI canât choose when to update, anymoreâ
That changed with windows 8 12 years ago.
âI canât uninstall all sorts of things, anymoreâ
Unless you installed the embedded versions of windows you've never been able to do that, best you could do was turn like 5 things off in the features screen.
âI canât even use my perfectly fine laptop of 6 years old, anymoreâ
I wouldn't call your computer not getting updates so you install a different OS "liberating" it.
Also your computer not getting updates doesn't magically turn it into a brick, you can still use it just fine. This is something I've never understood. As long as your web browser still gets updates that's the biggest security vulnerability that I'd be afraid of. Chrome supported Windows 7 until 109 in 2023, and Firefox ESR is still going until September this year. 10th gen and older intel machines don't get graphics updates anymore, are those machines ewaste? Shit some shitty laptops never get bios updates and there's a whole host of vulnerabilities there.
MCasq_qsaCJ_234And not to mention specific equipment such as train management that uses Windows XP, Windows 98 or 95. Just one example.
NutWrenchSame here. If I could get Vortex Mod Manager to work under Wine/Proton, I wouldn't use Windows at all.
Nexus Mods is working on an AppImage version of their mod manager that works perfectly in my testing.
Currently it only supports Stardew Valley and Cyberpunk i think.
I'm excited for it to have parity with Windows Vortex.
LukeGive it a shot again, something changed recently in Proton (I assume) that made Vortex "just work" for me on my Steam Deck. I didn't even need to do any fiddling, I just ran the installer exe from desktop mode using Lutris and whatever Proton was latest, and it installed perfectly. Vortex now runs entirely as expected, even from game mode.
Vortex should be easy to get working, it probably just needs the Dot Net and Visual C libraries installed, which I think you can get via Wine Tricks.
What games are you using it for? Iâve used Mod Organizer 2 for Skyrim SE and itâs worked great on the deck
Really? The last few times I've tried (granted it was a year or more ago) I got like 15 FPS on a heavy modlist running on my desktop, which had a GTX 2080 and was running Arch, btw. Trying to get MO2 to launch the Linux version of Skyrim running via Steam/Proton and not the Windows version of Steam running through WINE was a fun mess to deal with. Once all that was handled, then half of the modding programs (xEdit, Nemesis, BodySlide, etc...) didn't work with MO2s virtual FS. It was just way too many layers of abstraction to deal with đ¤Ż
Yes, really haha. I donât think I would consider the mod list I used heavy, at least not graphically. I didnât use any of those programs you mentioned.
Trying to get MO2 to launch the Linux version of Skyrim running via Steam/Proton and not the Windows version of Steam running through WINE was a fun mess to deal with
I recall using some sort of script that installed MO2 and handled all of this (at least for the Steam Deck).
Either way, I hope their new cross-platform launcher works out well.
Nice, thanks I'll give it a try again because Windows 10 is really pissing me off regarding how practically anything that you used to be able to easily disable now requires one or multiple registry hacks that may or may not work anymore.
I totally understand you not giving all that a try because while it is a handheld Linux PC, it's probably more of a pain in the ass to use on that screen and with the standard input (obviously docking it would solve these issues) than it's worth. I just keep Windows on my Desktop to play a few games, my home server is my workhorse and I have a Linux laptop that work gave me (literally, they laid me off and never asked for it back).
I checked out Mod Organizer 2 recently, but it didn't support Subnautica the last time I tried it. I only use mods for a few games, line Stardew Valley and the Fallout games.
netvorthe number of games in my library that wonât run on Linux is vanishingly small
at this point, it's pretty much only about Roblox.
...which I don't want to play, I'm not happy about my nephews playing, but that seems like the only big one which really continues to struggle on Windows.
edit: that's from my limited POV, as someone who loves gaming but i don't follow or try out big new titles, I'm pretty much happy with my 30 favs, trying out like 5 new games a year, usually older or indie titles.
Roblox is about the only reason why I can't switch my kid's computer to Linux, they play almost exclusively that and Minecraft. Once win10 goes EOL, I'll probably start budgeting to replace my laptop with a new PC and give them the laptop. The old PC will then get Linux and handle 3d printer stuffs
I might be out of date but for a long time my 2 nephews (10 and 13, cousins to each other) have been playing Blox Fruits, which I understand is pretty much a standard "grind" MMORPG. (Which I don't necessarily find that bad; having to put a lot of work in a character and seeing it grow slowly and steadily can be a lesson.) I like how they are having fun trying to coordinate and take out a boss together (sometimes dying all the time), but I suppose other games can give that, perhaps even better-looking ones and certainly ones made by less shady companies. (Oh, and actually working on Linux/steam deck)
So I was wondering if there are other games that I could introduce them to, if only to remind them that world outside Roblox exists. I never played any MMORPG's (or pretty much anything multi-player, except Minecraft/Terraria/etc. with the kids) so I'm out of the picture. I've only tried few in my life and never stuck for long.
Albion Online seemed child-like enough, albeit a little boring for my taste. One I really enjoyed recently is Path of Exile (and I it looks more than good enough to be hard to resist for a kid), but who knows -- is that safe for 10 to 13 year olds...?
at this point, it's pretty much only about Roblox.
It's Honkai: Star Rail for me.
Petty as it may seem, I'll begrudgingly dual boot Win10 until H:SR is playable on Linux.
Literally the only reason I keep Windows around is because modding Skyrim (using MO2, not Vortex) is a nightmare. I use Wabbajack as well, so the idea of installing 500+ mods manually in Vortex doesn't sound ideal, also since Vortex's conflict management is an absolute nightmare compared to MO2's.
rhabarba7.14% unknown!
The year of Plan 9 on the desktop!
bubstanceDeleted by author
Serious question: you'd use that for your daily driver?
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A rare sighting of a Plan 9 user! You need to be protected at all cost! Your species is extremely rare and important for future studies.
BTW for a moment I was upset, because I thought this is a screenshot of Reddit. I kinda like the old look of it.
What desktop environment is that? Or is it built in by default or doesn't work quite similar to linux?
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Out of curiosity, do you use it for fun, or does it provide you with some specific features?
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You explained it so well, that you actually got me interested in trying it some day.
I wish someone would port Python and BorgBackup to it. Venti/Fossil are not quite as nice for multi-OS backups.
Are you on oftc?
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Surprisingly many people don't need the "modern" "web" for daily driving.
the_weez
Possibly linuxI unironically would use it
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It says âTHE PLAN FELL OFFâ and âDO NOT INSTALLâ, everything OK over there?
EugeniaThe "unknown" is Windows. If you change the graph to see the whole range from 2008 to date, you will see that whenever there's a big spike or dip on Unknown, it's the exact opposite for Windows.
solirsFREEBSD >0.009% RAAAAAH đšđšđšđŞđŞđŞđŞđŞđŚžđĽđĽđĽ
BSD is dying
It is sad but we build up Linux so we have a libre privacy and freedom alternative
Nikkiim doing my part đŞ
switched to arch a week or so ago, absolutely loving it
I'm doing my part
Linux Mint here. Soon to switch to a more "manual" distro.
The only real reason to switch to another distro nowadays is because you want to get updates faster (rolling release [like Arch] vs steady releases) and/or you want the ability to customize the OS more easily. Also, if you wanna be that person that wants to remove SystemD from Linux or have a version controlled OS.
Or if you're sold on the hype of atomic distros (such as Fedora Kionite)
Or if you're sold on reproducable OS configuration (Nix)
Or if you simply like the defaults of another distro better and *don't* want to have to deviate from standards.
Or...
Nah, there's still a lot of variety to Linux systems.
I can't think of time where I needed anything more than Mint for a desktop. It's been on at least one device in my house since 2010.
xavier666Sorry but Linux is becoming too mainstream for me now. Time to hop on to BSD
onlookerCheck out mister Mainstream over here. The rest of us snooty OS connoisseurs use Collapse OS.
BeaverTime to speak to our representatives to switch to Linux Systems as Switzerland did for cyber security and for fiscal responsibility.
We must not fall behind that smart country once again.
What?! All that noise about Switzerland mandating usage of open sourced software in gov (there was a great step, but it's far from mandating anything) was already weird, now we are switching to linux? And caring about security and fiscal responsibility? There has to be another country called Switzerland than the one I live in.
You're right, I believe the only thing Switzerland mandated (or wants to mandate?) is for projects built FOR the government to be open sourced - and even then, there are exemptions.
Of course, unlike you, I don't live in Switzerland, so I'm probably not as informed.
Pasta DentalIl feels like every month that passes Linux keeps breaking all time highs! So exciting
Cool. My wife switched to LMDE yesterday, so that's one more into the fold.
If only MS Office worked well on Linux, due to her muscle memory, my wife would've switched to Fedora for her laptop. Aside from light gaming (Sims 4, mostly), she's not a tech-person at all, so that's saying something in my book!
She might adjust to LibreOffice, it borrows heavily from the MS Office UI. I think it's also available on Windows if she wants to try it before switching. Sims 4 works great on Linux too.
I'm so happy.
But also liked when linux felt like a secret.
Microsoft finally did something right: they made their shitty product shitty enough for people to realize it.
But also liked when linux felt like a secret.
Don't worry. You can still tap into that sweet sweet Linux elitism by running an Arch based system or a tiling window manager.
Only if you've installed Arch itself, using a GUI is noobs.
Also what the fuck is a tiling window manager? I want it!
Instead of having your windows float around, they perfectly snap and fill the space of the monitor depending on how many windows you have open. A new DE in alpha right now called Cosmic has both floating windows and tiling, you can change with just a toggle.
Cosmic is great so far, I run it on Fedora.
I want my windows anywhere I want them, and in Cinnamon I can snap windows to corners, o top, or bottom... Being forced to work tiled is backwards.
If as someone mentioned in Cosmic you can toggle it off and on ( and the toggle is esasily accesible, not buried in settings) I'm fine with that
"Being forced to work tiled" that's the main feature of a tiling wm though...
If you tried it for a while, you'd realize just how annoying floating windows really are. All that manual positioning, focus issues, getting them stuck or hidden behind other windows, etc. For big monitors, I would say tiling is just flat superior to floating windows managers.
I'm sorry, can you clarify what you wrote? I read it but then got distracted by my cursor moving on its own while I was reading an article about xzutils. Perhaps I should read it again since it made no sense the first time.
I think Gentoo with no binaries should be the new archlinux. I've literally used archlinux virtually unchanged outside of updates for years now. It's been trouble free outside of some minor bugs and I change my settings in the kde settings panel 90% of the time.
At this rate the Year Of Linux On The Desktop will be 2033!!!
HEXN3TCall me naive, I know I am. But how can Linux be a moderated product to sell for desktop? I know phones run Linux, and many other products like streaming pucks run Linux (or is called unix?), but what would it take for an operating linux system to be centralized into a package to toss into a lenova laptop you're staring at in best buy?
rudyharrelsonhow can Linux be a moderated product to sell for desktop
It kinda depends on each individuals' use case; there's lots of different Linux distributions that are better (or worse) for specific workloads.
Any given laptop I'm staring at in a store will probably work perfectly fine as a general-use machine with Linux Mint installed. This is my go-to distro when repurposing a machine because it works great out of the box. If I were running a computer store and wanted to sell consumer laptops with Linux on them, I'd default to Mint.
If someone is looking to turn their PC into something more specialized for gaming, they can look at something like Bazzite or Batocera. These will generally require some tinkering.
If an individual or company is looking to build an office with many workstations and user accounts, they might consider Red Hat Enterprise Linux so they can benefit from official support channels if something needs troubleshooting. Many computer labs at NCSU used RHEL when I attended many years ago.
Want a stable server environment? Debian is a standard pick.
Want a barebones system with no bells and whistles (but great battery life)? Alpine oughta work.
So Linux has many options for end users to pick from, which can be seen as a good thing (more options is generally good), but also a bad thing (many end users might consider the plethora of options to be overwhelming if they've never used Linux before).
Linux (or is called unix?)
Linux (Or GNU/Linux) operating systems are a modern implementation of an old research OS that was called "Unix". Spiritual successors to Unix like Linux and BSD try to bring a lot of the design philosophies of Unix into modern OSes (I believe this is generally called the "POSIX" standard. e.g.: macOS is a POSIX compliant OS, iirc).
If I've gotten any of this information incorrect, please don't tell Richard Stallman.
Chris LThis is the greatness of Linux. Instead of having to change your workflow to be compatible with your OS, you can change your OS to be compatible with your workflow.
So if you did open a computer shop and are selling this plethora of Linux options, doesn't that leave you liable if there are issues with the operating system?
If I buy a laptop and my windows is running poorly don't I have windows support taking care of my windows problems?
If I buy a laptop from you with mint installed and am having problems I can't contact Linux for support, I'll have to contact you the shop owner.
Won't this liability discourage shop owners from selling laptops/desktops with Linux?
I'm no legal expert; I assume support can be either offered or completely avoided depending on the shop owner's preference. Most Linux distributions come with a "this software is free (as in freedom) and comes with no warranty or guaranteed functionality" disclaimer.
If I wanted to engage more with my clients and build more trust, I might offer some degree of troubleshooting/support for the Linux machines I sold. But I don't think I'd be under any legal obligation to offer that service just for selling the laptops.
Whether or not the computer shop offers support might affect whether or not a customer wants to shop at my store. Maybe I can sell my laptops cheaper if I don't offer support, or maybe my laptops cost a bit more because I *do* offer aftermarket support.
It's a tough sell because there is no monetary incentive to get Linux on laptops and desktops. Dell has a few computers that ship with Ubuntu, and Lenovo with Fedora, and there's System76. The problem is that the big manufacturers (namely Dell) get push-back from Microsoft if they start to sell other OSes with their products, so they no longer have 100% domination. Microsoft will say "Oh you're selling a few products that come with Linux? Well, we won't offer you the ability to sell Windows anymore..." which would obviously be a huge impact to their business. They have gotten around this, but their offerings are still really slim. The market just isn't there compared to Windows based computers. Shelf space is expensive so they go with what sells: Windows based products.
Is it because Microsoft is the big dog with money and Linux is no dog because there is no company backing Linux? Windows sells solely because Windows can push the product?
Would it be benificial (albeit this will be extremely frowned upon by this community I believe) for a Linux distro to be backed and monetized via a corporation with a legal team to help push a Linux product on the shelves? In the short run it's a bad idea, but in the long run it'll familiarize the public, and push software developers for compatability. The incentive being that there's money now involved and it won't be a project for people.
Because right now to use Linux for the majority of user case operations you'd need at least computer science 101 to start installing a distro, partitions, manual software installation, to get running. Or am I wrong on this part?
There are a couple of OEMs like System76 and Starlabs that sell laptops with Linux on them, provide tech support for customers and so on.
And no, installing most distros aren't hard. You just click the buttons to proceed and fill out the username and password box, select your time zone and select your wi-fi network if you're using wifi.
You can do manual partitioning but why would you if you don't know what you're doing?
Installing software in the GUI is as easy as installing software from the Microsoft Store. Just search or look around and when you see something you want, just click the Install button.
One way to do it is for each company to develop their own flavor to ship with their laptop, in much the same way phone manufacturers just modify Android and ship it.
As an example, check out System76 and their laptops featuring their Pop!_OS distro, which is very user friendly and stable in my experience.
Some laptop manufacturers (and at least one of the larger ones) already offer Linux (Ubuntu) as a pre-installed OS. I suspect this will become more common if/when Linux becomes more popular as a mainstream desktop OS. Most likely it will still be 1 or 2 pre-selected distros though even then.
That's really cool I didn't know that was an option already. How does Ubuntu and windows compare for operating system support if I have a problem with the laptop? Is the manufacturer liable for the smooth running of the operating system? Or is the owner of the operating system liable?
It's a good question but I honestly have no idea how that works even today with windows actually because I have not owned a laptop in 15 years. In my mind, the laptop manufacturer has to guarantee compatibility with any OS it provides but even then, some support from the OS side may be needed. The best way to handle that would be if the manufacturer started contributing to the Linux kernel and provide full driver support because then everybody wins in the long run.
So like 6% if you class ChromeOS as Linux (which it essentially is, just with a proprietary DE)
Then 7% unknown, you'd imagine a disproportionate amount of those would be Linux users, who are more likely to have unusual useragents or things that mess with telemetry. But who knows.
That FreeBSD club looks pretty good. There's a niche for every niche.
JayđŠHmm is this really happening so fast? It's a little hard to believe.
Yes, although it's not evenly distributed. Much of this rise is due to India doing some heavy lifting - they're on like 16%, and they're not exactly a small population.
Most places are in the 1.5-3.5% range.
Even 3.5% is quite a lot imo.
Indeed it is. But this is also calculated based on monthly page views, so it only really covers devices that are used in that month.
There's a non-trivial amount of Windows users that have a dusty laptop that they only pull out when they need to write a document or fill in a form that they got emailed, and will otherwise do all their computing on their phone.
My guess would be that Mac and Linux have fewer of these types of users? But who knows. I have a couple of Linux devices that I almost never use đ¤ˇââď¸
You should go to your local university or knowledge center. The percentage is like 10%-20%
ulkeshI suspect it's a bump due to Windows Recall. I know I fully switched because of it after 25 years of off and on the Linux Desktop. And I will not be going back.
I suspect it's a bump due to Windows Recall.
I don't believe it that much. It may just be the Steam Deck's financial success. But everything is possible.
100% switched because of Recall. Been a Linux user on and off for 20 years, windows was my daily driver for the past 5 or so (windows 10 was OK in my mind). Once Recall was announced, I bounced back to Linux. Having Steam popularize gaming on Linux has helped a ton
Maybe not, but, anecdotally, I know of a number of people who have made the switch because of Recall. Steam Deck surely adds to it, but people who have the choice to stop using Windows seem to be doing so.
Maybe not, but, anecdotally, I know of a number of people who have made the switch because of Recall.
Tbh I don't get it. Wasn't this feature only on Copilot+ PCs that almost nobody had? Why did so many switch if it wasn't even confirmed that it's coming to regular x86 machines? I always find it extremely weird.
Microsoft showed their hand and for some it was the last straw. It might not come to non-copilot pcs (for now) but they showed users they are OK with turning the OS into spyware.
Why did so many switch if it wasnât even confirmed that itâs coming to regular x86 machines?
Panic.
imecthConsidering this is browser stats I doubt the steam deck has much to do with it, the steam deck is all about never opening anything other than steam.
plumbercraicI wasnt thrilled about upgrading to win11 - it adds an irritating layer of stuff that I didnt want or need. The ads and telemetry bugged me too. I was probably going to reluctantly upgrade at some point though.
But then recall was announced and I realised how much worse it could get. Been really happy with the switch to Linux.
What distro do you use?
Steam deck alone isn't much. It's not even popular in a lot of places in the world. But there are a lot of things happening in the market, and each small factor adds up to a general trend. So, there's no single factor that we can point that will explain the linux growth in marketshare.
There's some kind of network effect associated to it, so the greater the numbers, the more likely to grow even more, and faster. For example, when linux was used only by a very few people in IT, most people were unlikely to even give it a try, but now that every class or working group are likely to have one or two linux users, more people will be likely to try it, and so on.
I have been dual booting for some time now. Come back to windows 10 for gaming. But then I suddenly realize that the blizzard games that I play can run on Linux, and even from the same folder with the NTFS partition. I was stunned. No notable performance difference either.
I recently shows my mum that have an old Core 2 Duo that it can run Linux Mint. She said it works, and the computer shutdowns directly when I tell it to do. No more updating windows to wait for before unplugging the power cable. Still have to dual boot Windows 10 for Microsoft Office Word document compatibility and Google Picasa.
She also just have bought a new computer with Windows 11, could barely make it through the installation. So many questions and configuration needed to get rid of ads and popups in Edge. Need to evaluation Mint more before I try to dual boot it on this machine as well.
Picasa? That's been google-bandoned for a while now. What does she use it for? Plenty of photo management tools in Linux. Darktable, Digikam...
If the office alternatives in linux don't cut it, and she uses Office 365, you can run it in Linux as a PWA
Picasa because it had worked fine. And the replacement, Google photos, is not an option with storing everything in the cloud. Both Darktable and Digikam looks too advance. I think Gwenview will be a good fit. Will try later when she has the time to test. Just viewing the images in the folder, that is all that is needed.
It would be a good idea with the Office 365 but we don't want things in the Cloud. If the PWA could run offline it would be a different story.
Or.... Just fuck off windows altogether?
There is a learning curve for old people. It takes time. So dual boot is a must until then.
This. It feels to me like driving a stick shift when you've been using an automatic transmission for years. You have to do a little more fiddling but I honestly don't mind learning a new OS that isn't actively working against me.
With Windows . . . on the other hand . . . every time I've had to go "under the hood" (tweak Registry settings, Config files, etc) it's been to prevent Microsoft from doing something crappy to me.
Yes, with Windows it is a fight about disabling all the new stuff they come up with. Here, you must use OneDrive if you save a file. Here, lots of ads in the start menu, nothing is installed. Or here, please try copilot+ or bing. Do you want to set bing as your startup page? If you say no, we will ask you again... A new windows update? Lets ask everything again.
It also doesn't help that my dad still isn't filly convinced Linux isn't a virus/dangerous to my PC.
You might want to check out Libre Office. It's document compatible with MS-Office and I think it comes pre-installed on Linux Mint.
If you want you can try OnlyOffice, it works really well as a replacement for Office. That is if you only use Word, Excel and Powerpoint. I even convinced some Windows people to use it as its free, open source, cross platform and perhaps even easier to use at this point.
For Picasa maybe digikam? It maybe isn't a perfect replacement though. You could always try to run Picasa in a VM (or maybe even wine?)
Microsoft does not follow its own standard for doc and docx. Any other software tries to follow the standard, thus you can get different view of the document depending on what editor you use.
Picasa I think is easier to replace. Just need to relearn. Leaning towards Gwenview. VM is not an option, too complicated and slow for her. Picasa has been depricated for a long time now so it is time to move on.
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP
Weâre gonna hit that 5%
The Menemen!It is kinda crazy. Been using Linux since 2005 or 2006 on my desktop/notebook. I cannot believe we are almost mainstream now.
Now that we do so many things through a browser and WebKit/Blink (which run everywhere) have become the de facto standard browser engines, the OS no longer matters as much as it used to.
going to surpass 'unknown' any year now. it's happening.
Nobody using TempleOS? =(
THE LORD NEEDS NO NETWORKING!!! THE LORD IS THE NETWORK!
ClotIs someone kind enough to post a screenshot of the stats? I can't access it, because its a known tracking site and get blocked by the plugins.
Okay, I have bit the bullet and made an exception to provide screenshots myself:
tŇĚ ĚgĚĚÍŞÍĚŁĚxÍŤÍĚĚÍŻÍŁĚ̸̹ÍĚłnĚÍŇÍ
ÍĚŚĚĚThanks for your service, comrade.
Next time try out visiting the page through archive.org
I didn't think of it, because I always think or archive.org as older pages/versions. The problem is, is it updated to current? It's a big site, so probably it will be. Good idea, I'll check that next time through archive.org.
You can always* request a new archive of a website. If you log in (warning: it has to load google code at least when registering) you can also request a screenshot (which I don't know how you find later on, but right after you get a link) and recursive archiving with a depth of 1.
Interactive elements remain interactive nowadays, but it has limitations.
In some cases archive.today is worth a try too. It has workarounds for e.g. facebook, or at least in the past it had a fake account to be able to save facebook content.
But this one loads whatever code from yandex, so if that's problematic for you be sure to block it. uMatrix is best for that task, probably uBO can do it too, the Firefox version I mean.
These sites are basically my "remote browser", and often it'll be even useful for others that I requested an archive. Quite often I'm requesting the first one.
* mostly, but you can't if the site was very recently archived, like in 30 minutes. Then there are some sites that are blacklisted for some reason but not much.
I wonder what happened to OS X
It does not mean that something happened with MacOS / OS X. If it stays the same and everyone else gets bigger, then the same gets smaller relatively speaking. Look at the dip for OS X in Nov 2023. Looks like almost the same amount of up for Windows. Also Chrome OS went a bit down and Unknown went up, only Linux stays the same.
So either something in their software changed or it was really a phase of people buying new computers and changing their OS. For a fact, I also build my PC in Nov 2023 (but stayed on Linux). Maybe that was a time of new hardware or lower prices, don't remember exactly.
Are steamdecks getting counted in this?
I had a discussion about this 1 months ago: https://beehaw.org/post/14768525 And decided not to bring it up again. :D
My argument is, from the eyes of the website you visit, the Steam Deck user would be identified as a desktop user. That's because the browser you are using (most likely Firefox) and the desktop environment (most likely KDE) in the Desktop mode would be seen as a desktop. In short, yes, I think Steam Deck would be counted, but only if people visit the pages in Desktop mode. So not all Steam Deck users are counted here.
Game mode doesn't have a browser. I would be interested to find out of the steamdeck sales almost directly correlate to this increase. Not that I am complaining, it's a great way to use a linux desktop experience. I didn't really read how these numbers were measured.
The other explanation I could think of is that linux desktop is being adopted widely in India. I don't think that government's adopting linux desktop accounts for a significant portion of the machines.
soon we will reach the magic number companies need to finally consider supporting Linux for once
What is that magic number?
In my head itâs like half a percent, 4.45% seems *huge*.
Blisterexeabout 1/20 computers that browse the web run linux, thats pretty goofy
To what extent could it be acceptable?
Goofy like silly, not like unacceptable. Reckon all three of us are happy itâs as high as it is!
The crowdstrike failure is probably helping Linux.
This is what I was thinking when it happened. Businesses lose a shit ton of productivity and money due to Microsoft and Windows being a clusterfuck in multiple ways and they decide it's time to switch to something more stable.
Actually, crowdstrike has a very bad record regarding this, their services even managed to break Debian servers one time.
Source: some article.
In fact, that failure occurred this year. Now all that's left is for macOS to have a failure with that company and the collection is complete.
I highly doubt businesses would have been this fast in making the switch.
It helps to move quickly when your entire infrastructure crashes.
bigmclargehugeOne crash will absolutely not make this big of an uptick. The amount of highly specialized software and hardware that is OS dependant means switching will only be possible when those companies, hell really entire industries, decide to move over to a more open standard soft/hardware setup. In this case, a crash is a big deal, but the IT teams get on it and fix it in a day or two.
Also, certain Linux machines were affected by the cloudstrike outage. Even less reason to switch when the alternative was effected as well.
Why is it OS X but Windows doesn't specify which number?
OS/X is just short for Mac OS X, which is what they call their desktop OS.
Norah (pup/it/she)Would be interesting to know how much of that the steam deck is
It is not a steam user percentage, but according to the site by user data from web pages, it explicitly mentions search engines and social media. I doubt that the steam deck is extremely significant here.
Iâve been docking mine and using it as my primary pc. The only issue Iâve had is that I was able to play CSGO perfectly, and CS2 donât do so good.
i hear its great for that, but you are the exception.
Oh yeah, people who need more power definitely want something else. Itâs all I need really. Iâm about to inherit my daughterâs old gaming laptop though so Iâm not sure what Iâll do then. Definitely Linux with a small partition for windows to play some VR games. Iâd say Iâll still use the Steam deck for most things though because itâs so portable.
Why a windows partition for vr? Vr works on linux
Well, I guess I wonât need one then. Hardware is a bit older but if I can get the same performance Iâll avoid the windows partition.
Yeah, these results are skewed because it's only *desktop* Linux, so mobile devices (which I believe the Steam Deck and other portable PCs/gaming devices fall under) aren't counted, and those primarily run Linux. It seems that the foothold of Linux never was, and probably never will be, the desktop PC.
Xylight9 crossposts is crazy
I'm actually gearing up to convert all of my Windows machines to Linux once the updates for 10 stop coming. This will be especially easy once the new WINE gets integrated and the few windows game apps that I use can run well on Linux.
candle_lighterwhat's the new wine?
Better to do it at least a few months before end off life just in case you need to move back for some reason. The alternative is Windows 11 which is very similar to Windows 10
ऎŕĽŕ¤ŕĽŕ¤¤Is the data of specific distros available somewhere ?
Unsurprisingly, usage numbers for distros are hard to get due to lack of telemetry and what not.
However, some measurements do exist; like data from ProtonDB. These are used by Boiling Steam for their excellent reports in which *some* representation regarding usage across distros can be found. Their most recent report can be found here.
Note, however, that the following, as has been excellently touched upon by Boiling Steam, applies:
COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS
Since we hear some of the following comments EVERY SINGLE TIME, letâs address them here and now: - *âDuh, itâs not representative of Linux usage in general!â*: And nowhere does it claim to be. As often as possible we make it clear this is Linux usage in a gaming context. The usage of Debian and Ubuntu on servers is safe for now, no need to panic.
Thank you. This does give an idea.
Follow up question : Is Arch really that good?
Thank you. This does give an idea.
It has been my pleasure.
Follow up question : Is Arch really that good?
Depends entirely on your needs. There is a use case for Arch. However, if you're completely new to Linux, then it's very likely that a *'slower'*-moving distro (like (anything based on) Debian (or Ubuntu)) might better suit you.
sag
Mwas alt (prob)We are so back
embed_meI never left the party
Aniki
I understand you're excited, but aren't you overdoing it a bit?
We need more cross posts
on Reddit I think it makes sense but on Lemmy it's usually obnoxious in my experience, because it's not so populated and busy, the default browsing experience already gives you posts from all over... so unless you strictly browse followed communities (which i don't know if most people even do this) you end up seeing the same thing over and over.
I wonder if it is higher. Think about all the people using Librewolf
explodicleHow far down are PC sales in general though?
Is it that more people are buying Linux, or fewer Windows customers are buying new computers at all?
A few years ago, you'd have households with a laptop for every member of the family. Now with tablets and phones doing so much of the heavy lifting, many families are dropping to just 1 Windows or Mac laptop that mostly gathers dust.
My experience is more people having those devices on top of having laptops. I don't know a single person in Uni that does not have a laptop at all. At last when it comes to writing reports or thesis you just need a proper keyboard device.
Meanwhile gaming and also PC gaming has become much bigger over the years, which keeps driving computer sales.
Believe it or not - but most people actually aren't college students. Crazy, right?
Anybody in this forum isn't a typical tech user.
I carry 3 laptops in my backpack (one for 8-5 job, one personal, and one for teaching night classes at the University) along with a foldable phone, a work phone, and e-ink notepad.
Between my 3 laptops, Rog Ally, 2 desktops, and some old laptops I keep around for media devices and network interfaces around the property, I've got like 10 Windows machines in my life.
But I also know I'm an outlier.
ooh! whatâs the e-ink notepad, and whatâs your usecase like?
it seems so appealing to just have a functionally infinite notebook on hand, but iâve yet to find one that could ACTUALLY replace a regular physical notebook for me.
Boox Tab Ultra C.
It's a 10" color e-ink tablet that runs Android.
Don't get the keyboard case for it - it sucks hard. It's so thick it turns it into another laptop, it types terribly, and when folded backwards so you can write it still tries taking over from the pen.
Other than that I love it.
argh thatâs literally the ONE that was tempting me, now I guess I GOTTA buy one! this sucks!
(thank you so much iâve wanted to buy this since it came out)
If you carry three laptops around you are definitely doing things wrong. There is no real world scenario where doing what you say you do needs 3 physical computers, and if you have a 9-5 AND teach night classes , you don't have extra minutes to use your "personal" laptop that day, which leads me to call bull on the carry 3 laptops thing
The course I teach involves photo and video editing, which I do on my personal laptop for 2 reasons:
- Because I own the photos and videos I capture, the raws stay on my device.
- My personal laptop has a lot more horsepower
I can see it. My corporate work laptop is locked down with their security and monitoring software, so I'm not using it for personal things, even if it is allowed for some limited things. And there's company resources that I can only access through the machines under their control, so I couldn't ditch it either. And using that laptop for a second job would be a big no-no.
I can see the school laptop being similar, though my experience is that they tend to not be locked down quite as hard as the corporate machine, unless you do boneheaded things with it and piss off the school's IT department.
So I can see the need for a personal computer, plus it's always nice to keep that well separated to avoid things like incidents hooked up to a projector and screen sharing.
Both
Windows isn't only losing markershare to linux, but also to android and ios. That can be seen in the chart for all OSes, also available in that site:
https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share#monthly-201501-202407
It's also interesting to notice that linux is growing in that chart, which means that linux is really growing in popularity, and it's not just an effect of the desktop market possibly shrinking or something.
I used to think that I'd be glued to my PC forever, but ever since getting a foldable I've found that I'm no longer reliant on computers anymore for daily tasks. Plus there's no point in eating up 300w of electricity during the summer (according to my watt meter), just to watch YouTube.
These days the only time I boot my PC is to play a game, search for a job, or make a large purchase. I'm a MilleniaI, so big purchases have to be done on the big computer. The phone is more than adequate for everything else. It's not the 2010s anymore; phone screens are finally large enough now to replace a PC, and there's an Android equivalent for almost everything a computer can do.
Programming? Nah. It's a consumption device, not a creation device.
Yeah I used to think I'd always need a desktop, but these days I mostly only use my phone and laptop. And considering how small desktops are getting, I can only imagine the days of the traditional desktop are numbered.
How do I hide which OS I am using? What is behind the high Unknown number?
Agility0971Use user agent switcher and set it to something random. However that makes your fingerprint unique. I've read that people set it to windows just to blend in the masses
Every browser has a description like "Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 8.1.0; SM-T580) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/74.0.3729.157 Safari/537.36" called User Agent. You can set this value to something else, but be careful. If you set it to something that does not exist, then it makes it more likely to be identifiable. Or some things could potentially not work right if it expects a specific operating system, in example when downloading files. Usually not a big deal.
So ultimately you want to set this value to something that exist and something that is used by many people. There are addons which can make this process much easier or even change it automatically after some time period in example.
Chameleon at https://sereneblue.github.io/chameleon/ is such an addon for the browser. There are lot of other alternatives, I used a few of them in the past, but stopped using them because there was here and there trouble. If you do, I recommend to install this addon from the addon store of your browser and not from the website, but that is just my personal recommendation.
Thanks. So what is measured is merely the browsers people are using? Then I can see why the metrics are more general ballparks than precise measurements, seeing that the user agent can be modified with ease.
The question is, if they only evaluate the User Agent? This is an organization specialized into statistics, they know it can be modified too. The ad industry tries to track you and find out everything about you despite these modifications. Don't underestimate them!
Dufurson
buwhoi didn't need this date; i already knew this because the number of people coming up to me on the street and telling me they use Linux btw unprompted has increased noticeably.
FFS! CHROMEOS IS F***ING LINUX, G** D***IT, WHYYY YOU DO THIS, IT'S LINUX, C***** ON A BIKE!
Cockin on a bike? What did you write there?
Default_DefectWhy use the words if you're just gonna censor them?
I've made the switch to Bazzite this week. First on my Legion Go. And after that worked mostly out of the box and without any hassle I installed it to my desktop. And it really is the first time I feel like I'm not missing something or have a use case that would not be covered. Steam/Proton really is a killer combination and will in my opinion be the thing that will make people consider to switch.
Jerkface (any/all)Whatever apps and corporate synergy they might have, no commercial consumer OS meets my most basic use cases for operating a computer. The whole point of commercializing the OS was to take power away from users and artificially limit our options. It wasn't even a secret, there was huge industry-shaping lawsuits about it. But people don't give a fuck about that if they can't run Fortnight...
I'm annoyed we didn't all go with BSD, but this is nice. We got to hold on to some of our nice things for once.
macniel
Night MonkeyWhen windows 10 goes bye bye next year, I'm turning my old PC into a Linux machine. At least they don't require the security 2.0 chip
Iâll probably switch my school laptop to Fedora from windows 11/tiny11 because why not, all of the stuff I really need for it can be done on a browser anyway. Also itâd be funny to confuse everyone around me about what it runs, and act like Iâm hacking by using cmatrix Infront of them like a silly goof.
Lvxferre [he/him]Thank you, Microsoft, for this wonderful opportunity! đ¤
No, seriously. How much of this increase is caused by obnoxious, assumptive, shitty, user-hostile decisions that Microsoft recently took?
My switch is.
Same. I'd have stayed on Windows if Microsoft had just not been so determined to make using the OS so dreadful while also harvesting my personal data.
ScrubblesI'm curious about work vs home use too. I'm guessing if you take out computers where Microsoft is mandated, it'd be more of a stark difference
Banzai51Workplaces are all about the apps. If those apps you need only run in Windows, that's what you run. Believe me, businesses would LOVE to cut license costs.
Been a Linux user for 20+ years but windows WAS my daily driver the last 5 of them⌠got fed up with all the ads and plans for the screen recording and pulled the plug. Linux 100% for me again!
I was getting a couple of pop up ads in my Win10 install, and I switched a couple of months ago. The more I looked at gaming, the more I realized it could be done.
I play a fair bit too. (That's why I'm here.) People tend to underestimate the selection of games for Linux, always mentioning stuff like Tux Race and the likes. Even before Proton, you could run a lot of stuff; for example I got Cult of the Lamb, Celeste and Cuphead here, those aren't exactly "old" games (although not exactly fresh either - I'm a patient player).
I have seen people switch to linux or dualboot just because minecraft, a game owned by microsoft, works so much better on linux compared to windows
Minecraft is the exception that proves the rule - Microsoft likely did try to pull off the plug of OS X and Linux support, in a user-hostile move, but it failed due to its popularity.
Minecraft has two main versions:
- the Java version. Desktop-wise available for Linux, OS X, and Windows. Predates Microsoft buying Mojang (Minecraft's developer studio). That's likely the version played by the people whom you're referring to.
- the Bedrock version. Coded in C++, and desktop-wise available only for Windows. Created after the acquisition of the studio.
Odds are that, when Microsoft funded the Bedrock version, it assumed that every Windows player would adopt it instead of the Java version, because it does perform far better. But there's a catch - Bedrock cannot be modded (modified by the user with third party code), only the Java version can, and the modding scene for Minecraft is *huge*. So if Microsoft pulled off the plug of the Java version, a lot of people would leave, in special adult and teen players; and once they're gone people aren't introducing the game to young children any more.
Now, on *why* Java Minecraft runs better in Linux: I have no idea. It might be the mods themselves running better in Linux, as a lot of modders are Linux users.
The reason it runs better is
- Lower cpu overhead on linux
- Better opengl drivers on linux
Bedrock can be modded and has a lot of tools to do so(as far as i know, i dont play it)
On linux, it is much faster for both vanilla and modded minecraft
Minecraft bedrock edition can be played on linux using third party launchers
- Bedrock can be modded and has a lot of tools to do so(as far as i know, i dont play it)
*Kind of.*
Yes, you could call Bedrock add-ons "mods". But regardless of name they're clearly a different can of worms, more limited in capability - to the point that most are simply fluff, not changing the game in meaningful ways. Contrast that with the huge survival, industrial, exploration etc. modpacks that exist for Java, that basically use MC as an engine instead of a game. (Or even individual mods. Terrafirmacraft I'm looking at you.)
To give you an idea, CurseForge lists ten times as many Java mods than Bedrock addons, with half of them being stuff like TPs, skins, maps. So if you *really* want to see Bedrock addons as "mods", my point changes from "Bedrock has no mods" to "Bedrock has mods, but they don't matter in the big picture since people playing and modding Minecraft are mostly doing it with Java Edition". The conclusion is still the same.
On linux, it is much faster for both vanilla and modded minecraft [Java]
@Blisterexe@lemmy.zip mentioned that it has less CPU overhead and better OpenGL drivers. I never *noticed* a big difference for vanilla because it's typically mods that make your computer shit bricks.
Minecraft bedrock edition can be played on linux using third party launchers
The problem of something relying on a 3rd party dev like this is that MS can easily pull off the plug if it so desires, in ways that wouldn't look like arseholery but "protecting its own IP": copyright trolling, abusive terms and conditions, etc.
*Currently* it has no reasons to do so, as it would counter its best interests. But it's clear that, if Microsoft got its way with Bedrock, and players migrated in mass to Bedrock (to the point that the Java version was deprecated), MS would have all the reasons to pull off the plug.
That's funny, my friend tried to get mc working on linux and it kept flickering white. Wayland moment? Nvidia moment? Who knows
I want to know who the fuck is gaming on FreeBSD and how.
KaynWho's saying anything about gaming in that image?
The comments on this article might lead to good info.
https://www.phoronix.com/news/Steam-FreeBSD-2021
I expect a lot is possible if Wine and good Vulkan drivers are available.
This guy shows how to get Steam up and running:
Yup, I used to use FreeBSD and it worked okay. When I used it, the Nvidia drivers were better than AMD, but I don't know if the FOSS AMD drivers have been ported to FreeBSD.
You can theoretically run Linux programs (such as Steam) on the BSDs. And I am pretty sure that there are some open source games on BSD too. Only tried it a few times tho.
Edit: and there's a WINE version for FreeBSD aswell.
FreeBSD Nvidia drivers have a similar set of features compared to Linux drivers, there is also a Linux compat layer on FreeBSD.
Known unknown(s) at 7.14% and rising over the Linux stat. Could these also be Linux and perhaps BSD desktops?
At this rate by 2038 windows will be at 50% market share and by 2069 it'll be at 0%.
Mac is at ~20% and quite well known already, so maybe 20% is the market share where even commoners (non-tech folk) will know of linux and use it. Still have a ways to go folks...
There's probably a better tool, but a 5 minute search didn't find one for me 𤡠How that was calculated
x*0 + 50 and x*0 to find the points where 50% and 0% are reached
Somebody set us up the mandatory online accounts and telemetry!
All your PCs are belong to us. You have no chance to back up make your time.
mtlvmprWhat's the unknown line? Some Chinese OS or browsers with all info excluded?
VPN/unreported/embedded smart HTTP parser requests?
delirious_owlHmm, I only run Linux but my browser often lies to resist fingerprinting and says I'm running windows.
Are they getting this info from web servers, really? If so then its likely under reporting since Linux users are probably more likely than non-linux users to use tools that falsify their reported OS to resist fingerprinting.
the reports i've seen in the past do it with thousands of popular web servers. i didnt dig into this particular report.
Didn't realize how big it was in India, 16.21%!
rorschahKerala have a big contribution to this since all the school IT labs + government offices here use ubuntu or its slightly modified versions. Wish if every state did so.
DeceptichumEverything I hear from India is generally pretty negative news with the exception of basically anytime Kerala is mentioned.
AatubeTechnological sovereignty
My Windows 10 install shat the bed so I'm trying Linux Mint again.
It's crazy how a computer can feel brand new again when 50 different pieces of bloatware aren't trying to all start on boot.
The gaming situation is so much different now with Steam Play and Proton. Although I've found that just because a game is Steam Deck Verified, it doesn't necessarily mean it'll work the first try.
I installed PopOS last year after I got fed up with bloatware, adds, and just outright annoying ânotificationsâ in windows 10 and 11, and I havenât looked back.
I found a great resource in the ProtonDB website for configuring proton settings as I have also occasionally had games not work properly that are steam deck verified. There are typically enough people posting how they overcame issues and their build components so you can try to match up their fixes with your computer parts. It helps a ton most of the time.
Yeah ProtonDB is great but it doesn't always have a fix.
For example, Powerwash Simulator is Steam Deck Verified and has a Platinum rating and most people are like "runs great out of the box, no problems".
However, when I tried it, the screen would blank every second until I managed to put the game into windowed mode, and then the lower portion of it was concealed behind the app panel.
This was on a fresh Linux Mint 22 install with the latest proprietary Nvidia drivers.
Also, you can't install most games until you enable "Steam Play on all titles" which I had to figure out myself.
Installed Bazzite myself yesterday and yeah it feels like I bought a new PC without having actually spent the money XD
We making to the 5% with this one!!! đŁď¸đŻđđĽđĽđĽđĽ
skulblakaI'm doing my part!
No really, I installed Mint on my home machine less than a week ago. Trying to get my buddy to switch too before Win11 comes knocking.
What is unknown? Various Unix variants? Custom embedded operating systems ( does that count as desktop?)?
joewilliams007maybe browsers that obfuscate that information
Me, changing my user agent to "Browser McBrowserFace"
nebulaoneI know this is probably a joke, but don't do that. It gives you a unique fingerprint.
miss phantSo I've looked into the yearly stats and macOS stats and the fact that they call it OS X and the macOS version stats only go up to Catalina (the last 10.x, released in 2019) makes me believe most of these are macOS 11+ users.
FireWire400Things like Haiku (or BeOS), ReactOS, ArcaOS, AmigaOS etc.
I don't think they do but maybe they're also counting type 1 hypervisors.
Edit: Nevermind, I thought they bundled in "Other" into that category; they didn't, as evident by the chart below the stats which includes "Other".
It's probably just the case of they couldn't determine the OS being used.
gedaliyahOnly 3.42% in Europe RIP
Yeah, hopefully government and EU interest in open source will change this on a large scale.
Both Germany and Switzerland both made progress in the last months.
Except Norway with 29.1%. What gives?
vsisEverywhere, except India, it's about 3%.
With India the average is a bit more than 4%.
I was checking out regional market shares and it seems Linux has a 29.1% market share in Norway. Anybody knows why? Linux is almost twice as big as OSX there.
TechognitoSo in theory, one third of everyone I meet should be a linux user. Yet everyone uses windows. đ¤ Am I the 30%?? /sw
Right? It seems fishy to me, that's why I asked. Would love to know the reason for this.
I do actually know a fair share of people using Linux in my social circle, but a lot of them uses both windows and Linux. My family uses Linux for their private devices, as that was a requirement to get my technical support. And an increasing number of my friends are moving over to Linux.
What I find weird is the sudden increase of 10% (from 18.16% to 29.04%). Like, did everyone get back from vacation after a Linux conversion camp or something?
Good on you for converting even more normies to Linux.
What I find weird is the sudden increase of 10% (from 18.16% to 29.04%).
There have to be a reason for this. Maybe people finally got fed up with MS & Apple.
Random_Character_AWell, lately Microsoft has hitting big on enshittification. More than usual.
JeffoolI love the idea of using Linux. But then I end up playing Warzone every weekend with my family. Can't give that up. The best part is that they want kernel access, and still have cheating problems, apparently. (Must be higher than my level!) But it still inherently affects me, as they won't port to Linux.
Kernel level anticheat still can't stop cheaters? Time for boot partition anticheat, let it run before the kernel ;)
Hell, layer the whole OS on top of anticheat software just to play one game.
Funny, with a harsh ring of truth. I actually would be interested if they could dual boot with the game on a partition. That would make the transition to Linux easy too. But ultimately as it is, it's "use Windows, or say to hell with playing games with your family". I'm lucky that I still enjoy playing games with them, and them with me, so I gotta stick with that.
Naah, obviously the solution unrestricted mic and camera access with AI analyzing the stream to detect cheating.
Im at a similar place as you where I do as much gaming on linux as possible but then there are some games that just do not work :(. At this point Im really thinking about playing warzone on a console since there is support for keyboard and mouse (last time I checked).
QuarterSwedeSigh. macOS nowadays.
paraphrandThey label it as OS X and macOS on different parts of the page.
What is the difference between these two terms?
Oh, it use to be Mac OS. Then it was Mac OS X (Mac OS Ten). Now itâs macOS.
I honestly don't know how to think about this. On one hand, it's pretty cool that more and more users are giving the finger to Microsoft and switch to Linux.
On the other hand, Linux systems are gonna become a bigger target for cyberattacks or malware. I realise that I, as a regular person who isn't on dodgy porn sites all day, probably have nothing to fear but still, I like my Linux lightweight and if they have to slap some antivirus on there.... eh idk
Don't fret! 95+% all servers on the internet run Linux so the attack vector has been there for ages. Follow best practices and your risk will remain low!
Unfortunately there's a lot more to it than that.
You're right that the "back end" of Linux systems tend to be quite hardened.
It's the desktop environments that are a concern when it comes to security hardening, IMO. Almost all servers have no DE installed so it's not something enterprise has cared about.
How much effort has been put into security on DEs? I honestly have no idea, but so far there hasn't been an enormous pressure to security harden them.
Shit, look at:
X11. It's insecure by design, yet most distros still ship with it (understandably, since Wayland isn't 100% yet).
packaged software runs as root during the whole installation period - this means that anything slipped into the install script will have full root privileges to do anything to your system. Flatpak does fix this, but normally-packaged software is still abundant.
any non-root program can change aliases in your bashrc or bash_aliases file. I.e. they can change "apt install" to some other nefarious command, or to point to a dodgy software repository, so that next time the user types "sudo apt install [XYZ]", it downloads malware or does other nasty things.
I'm absolutely *clueless* about this stuff and I can come up with those potential attack vectors in seconds. Imagine what a proficient hacker could do, or a hostile nation-state.
I definitely think improvements will have to be made in terms of security, and we're no doubt going to hear more about malware in the coming years. But it's not an insurmountable problem, IMO. Distros and DEs will just take time to adapt.
X11. Itâs insecure by design, yet most distros still ship with it (understandably, since Wayland isnât 100% yet).
This is a bit overhyped.
packaged software runs as root during the whole installation period - this means that anything slipped into the install script will have full root privileges to do anything to your system. Flatpak does fix this, but normally-packaged software is still abundant.
WTF? Things that run as root, do. Things that don't, don't. Obviously most things don't.
any non-root program can change aliases in your bashrc or bash_aliases file. I.e. they can change âapt installâ to some other nefarious command, or to point to a dodgy software repository, so that next time the user types âsudo apt install [XYZ]â, it downloads malware or does other nasty things.
For your own user, so what?
EDIT:
But itâs not an insurmountable problem, IMO. Distros and DEs will just take time to adapt.
Actually it is. One can make levels over levels of isolation, sandboxes and more sandboxes, but in the end conscious hygiene matters most.
This is a bit overhyped.
No, it isn't. If anything it's the opposite.
Under X11, any program of any kind can see the contents of another program.
Under X11, any program of any kind can see all your keypresses, whether the app is focussed, unfocused, minimised, on another virtual desktop. Anything.
Under X11, any program can inject keypresses into any other program.
Under X11, any program of any kind can access your clipboard.
And it doesn't even take root privileges. That's just the default.
The X11 system itself runs as root, though. And this opens the door for privilege escalation exploits.
That's before we even consider the devs themselves saying that the complexity, decades of spaghetti code, and unfixable bugs make it virtually impossible to patch.
X11 is a security *nightmare* of epic proportions. An absolutely cataclysmically insecure system. And it's one of the main reasons that X11 devs abandoned it for Wayland.
WTF? Things that run as root, do. Things that don't, don't. Obviously most things don't.
I never said that things that don't run as root run as root. That doesn't make sense, it's self contradictory.
What I said was that install scripts for repo packages *always* run as root. And therefore anything that makes its way into the script *will* be executed with root privileges. That is a risk.
For your own user, so what?
What do you mean, "so what"?! A non-root program being able to highjack system commands and even gain root access isn't "so what", it's a glaring security hole.
Actually it is. One can make levels over levels of isolation, sandboxes and more sandboxes, but in the end conscious hygiene matters most.
You're right, but you're taking my words there a little too literally there.
When I say the problems aren't insurmountable I mean *"with effort, a lot of these will be fixed and your system will be pretty secure"*, not *"one day Linux systems will literally be unhackable, and no exploit or security issue will ever be found again. Security problems will be a thing of the past."*
Under X11, any program ...
This would be the same as under Windows, no?
The X11 system itself runs as root, though. And this opens the door for privilege escalation exploits.
It usually does, but it doesn't have to.
Thatâs before we even consider the devs themselves saying that the complexity, decades of spaghetti code, and unfixable bugs make it virtually impossible to patch.
And the new thing to replace that is still not good enough after 10 years or so.
I said that install scripts for repo packages always run as root. And therefore anything that makes its way into the script will be executed with root privileges. That is a risk.
Let's please not extrapolate the problems of your distribution to all of them.
What do you mean, âso whatâ?! A non-root program being able to highjack system commands and even gain root access isnât âso whatâ, itâs a glaring security hole.
Your user may set aliases for the shell of your user, and the program\script ran by your user can do that.
It's not a security hole at all. It's something you should be able to do for any normal use.
This would be the same as under Windows, no?
In short, no not really for modern windows versions, in almost all cases.
Although I don't find "well Windows does it so it must be alright" to be a great argument anyway. When someone says "top notch security", Windows isn't the first thing that springs to my mind.
It usually does, but it doesn't have to.
Hypothetically yes, but in every single distro out there that I've seen no. And most people don't build their own from scratch.
And the new thing to replace that is still not good enough after 10 years or so.
Not in all cases, no. There are fringe usecases still being worked on. I've been using it since 2016 just fine, but my sister, who is reliant on screen readers, hasn't been able to.
Like I said, things are being worked on. This is kind of derailing the conversation away from security, though. I was talking about security.
Let's please not extrapolate the problems of your distribution to all of them.
No. It is all of them. It's a problem with all Debian-based distros, Fedora, SUSE, Arch, you name it. Installer scripts run with root privileges.
Your user may set aliases for the shell of your user, and the program\script ran by your user can do that.
Yes... then when you run sudo thinking you're using whatever command, it can run something entirely different. How don't you see that as a problem?
It's not a security hole at all.
WHAT?! Any program, without root privileges, being able to tamper with what commands do, and gain full root access to your system, "is not a security hole at all"??
So you download, say, a text editor. Except it's been compromised (although you don't know it). That program alters the sudo command by aliasing it to execute a curl command that encrypts your drive and shows a message that if you send ABC amount of bitcoin to XYZ wallet, then you get the decryption key.
You run sudo for any reason, e.g. to edit your fstab file, do a system update, install a package, anything, and you type your password at the prompt as usual. Unbeknownst to you, you didn't actually just run sudo plus your intended command, you just ran that aforementioned curl script, and you handed it sudo privileges. Your SSD is encrypted, your data is gone.
In your mind, *that's* not a security hole? That's intended behaviour? Any program should be able to do that?
I don't really know what to say to that, other than I disagree wholeheartedly.
100% there will be more malware and scams as Linux grows. In fact, it's happening already.
Just look at there being multiple instances of cryptowallet theft on Ubuntu's app store by devs uploading fake copies of crypto wallet managers.
And that's before we even get onto DEs â and much of the desktop Linux stack in general â generally not being designed with security in mind, as it's not been something they've had to worry about.
We *will* see more malware, more scams. We *will* see glaring security problems that were allowed to stay in place for years be exploited. We *will* see infighting in the Linux community over all of this stuff.
It is the price we must pay for being an increasingly relevant platform.
With any luck, more users will mean more contributors, more financial support for devs, and of course better security as a result of that - you only need to look at how much KDE Plasma has improved with support from Valve, and how much work Gnome has been getting done after Germany's "Sovereign Tech Fund" contribution to see that even a little bit of support can go a long way.
And thatâs before we even get onto DEs â and much of the desktop Linux stack in general â generally not being designed with security in mind, as itâs not been something theyâve had to worry about.
I'm not sure this is entirely correct. But there's truth here in the sense that things have been becoming more complex over time, so now an average desktop system has much more packages than 10 years ago, and supply chain vulnerabilities are a thing.
Now, using snap store, flathub and all that is just unhygienic.
We will see more malware, more scams. We will see glaring security problems that were allowed to stay in place for years be exploited. We will see infighting in the Linux community over all of this stuff.
I'm certain most of the failures will be in the new shiny stuff, and thus most of the losses in that infighting too.
I'm not sure this is entirely correct
Why is that?
Now, using snap store, flathub and all that is just unhygienic.
What is this based on? What do you mean by "unhygienic" anyway?
Flatpaks are more secure than system packages. They're not installed with installation scripts that run as root (and can therefore do *anything* to your system if malicious code is slipped in.
Flatpaks also have sandboxing. It's not a perfect implementation mind you, but it's better than zero sandboxing.
Snaps is a bit more complicated, but sandboxing works *if* you have a fistro that uses AppArmour, so basically Ubuntu and some derivatives. Although who else would use snaps anyway lol. Flatpak won that fight.
I'm certain most of the failures will be in the new shiny stuff
I don't know why you'd be certain of that. New stuff is generally designed from the ground up to be more secure.
Look at Flatpaks Vs repo packages.
Look at xdg-portals Vs 500 different implementations to do the same thing.
Look at the absolutely cataclysmic security catastrophe that is X11 compared to Wayland.
Why is that?
Because a vulnerability in one DE's file manager, for example, will have smaller impact because many people don't use that DE.
Same with other things.
Also because that's something we still had to worry about.
Flatpaks are more secure than system packages. Theyâre not installed with installation scripts that run as root (and can therefore do anything to your system if malicious code is slipped in.
Not all package managers even run install scripts (from packages) at all.
Flatpaks may contain vulnerable versions of libraries bundles, IIRC. While the one from the normal package manager has been updated.
Flatpaks also have sandboxing. Itâs not a perfect implementation mind you, but itâs better than zero sandboxing.
I just don't like the general direction of this. Running more and more complex and untrusted crap and solving that with more complexity.
I donât know why youâd be certain of that. New stuff is generally designed from the ground up to be more secure.
More complexity - bigger probability of mistakes. Sometimes fundamental laws are enough.
Look at the absolutely cataclysmic security catastrophe that is X11 compared to Wayland.
I'm afraid of the day that may come where people will say that Emacs is a security catastrophe due to lack of isolation.
This essentially all boils down to "I don't like new things, and despite it being made more secure, I don't trust it"
How are sandboxes "untrusted crap"?
You talk about complexity being bad, yet you seem to prefer X11 over Wayland, and 500 different implementations of the same thing, implemented separately by every app developer, rather than using a standardised xdg-portal. Surely you see the contradiction there?
This essentially all boils down to âI donât like new things, and despite it being made more secure, I donât trust itâ
No, quite the opposite, I like new things, just in my own direction. Which would be simplification. We've had this exponential growth of computing power and complexity and expectations in the last 30 years, which can't go on.
Again, where you'd use a screwdriver 100 years ago, you'll still generally use a screwdriver, possibly one as simple as 200 years ago, but with computers we for some reason have to hammer nails with a microscope today.
A personal computer should be as complex as Amiga 500 tops.
Wasting 1000 times the energy to try and make it easier to use than that still hasn't yielded satisfactory results, for a sane person this means stop.
The rest is just gaslighting.
How are sandboxes âuntrusted crapâ?
What you run in them is untrusted crap.
yet you seem to prefer X11 over Wayland, and 500 different implementations of the same thing, implemented separately by every app developer,
Yes, what's standard in X11 has N different variants with Wayland. Correct.
rather than using a standardised xdg-portal
I don't use it at all.
If you meant that Wayland is simpler than X11, let's compare them when Wayland reaches feature parity. Also X11 as a standard is simple enough.
I also consider Nix and Guix to be better solutions to some of the problems Flatpak and Snap solve, and Flatpak and Snap to fall short of solving others.
The best protection against malware is closing the security flaws they typically abuse to make them work in the first place.
gandalf_der_12teThe biggest security flaw though is typically the human itself.
... how do you close that hole?
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Not that easy if you want it to be safe, quick and painless - and ideally without traumatizing someone else.
I wonder how much of it is that casual users are less likely to even own/use a laptop/desktop for personal use anymore. Mobile devices, and maybe tablets, have been the most popular way of connecting to the internet for a while.
Can you describe firewire in great detail?
It's an outdated interface connection standard commonly used by camcorders in the 1990's (mostly MiniDV camcorders I think); its technical name (or name of its specification rather) is IEEE1394, 'FireWire' is just the marketing term Apple used for it. I think Sony called it 'i.Link'.
FireWire400 is really called IEEE1934a and has a theoretical transfer rate of 400 Mb/s, it can deliver 7 watts of power and carry ethernet packets.
The standard pretty much died off as soon as USB 3.0 came out AFAIK, since they couldn't get higher transfer speeds than a theoretical 800 Mb/s (whereas USB3 supports up to 5 Gb/s).
My profile picture shows a FireWire400 port on the front panel of a PowerMac G5.
299792458ms
High or low, all Linux usage stats are fake.
If that's a joke, I don't get it.
If that's real, I don't know why.
Help?
Those usage stats are a fantasy build by nicely asking your browser about your pc's details. But the answer is complete fiction. And one people often intentionally set to display Windows because idiotic corporate-created webpages will refuse to work properly otherwise.
(I haven't touched Windows in many years and still I would end up in those stats as a Windows user (and Chrome which is also wrong)...)
It's basically all just marketing bullshit.
Also, what does "a computer" mean?
Smartphone? Tablet? Laptop? what about in-airplane displays? what about cashier tablets? what about computers without a display? what about ATMs?
Anything with a browser user agent
Ask yourself: * Where do these stats come from? * What do they actually measure? * How can the total number of all Desktop Linux users or devices be known to anyone?
â
The fact of the matter is, none of these stats actually measure the number of users. Most of them are just totally flawed guestimates based on what is often limited web analytics data collected by them.
In fact, not even the developers of a single distribution can guess the number of people/devices using/running that specific distribution. A distribution like Debian for example has mirrors, and mirrors to some mirrors, and maybe even mirrors to some mirrors to some mirrors. So if Debian developers can't possibly know the number of Debian users, do you think OP's site knows the total number of Desktop Linux users?
And let's not get into the fact that the limited data they collect itself is not even reliable. View desktop site on your Android phone's browser. Congratulations! Now you're a desktop Linux user. No special user-agent spoofing add-on needed. You're even running X11. Good choice not following the Wayland fad too soon.
I'm assuming they mean tracking Linux users is difficult since most distributions don't have any kind of telemetry or tracking and there's no company keeping track of their user count like Microsoft or Apple. However, it's not like it's impossible.
The closest thing to telemetry on Linux is Chrome OS.
What's been going on over in the Apple world?
Probably just bad count. In the data starting in 2023, you can see "unknown" suddenly rise and windows dip, then immediately after macs get a boost to finally dip again while windows get a boost.
Must've been the release of multiple things and in Nov 2023 the data was corrected or a new product with windows on it was released.
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