PieFedLogitech has an idea for a “forever mouse” that requires a subscription
Xatolosarstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/07/logitech-has-an…
221 Comments
Comments from other communities
So if you miss a payment your mouse shuts off?
How is your standing policed, with an always online requirement? So if I move and need to wait to get my internet up, I can't use my mouse?
Are they legally liable for lifetime support or are you signing away that right in the EULA and they can end support for your "lifetime" mouse on a whim?
I'd rather rent my furniture than subscribe to a mouse, but both practices are exploiting this world's rampant financial illiteracy.
1984They could probably do that in windows by adding some service that checks if the mouse is valid... Since on windows it's using Logitech drivers.
On Linux it's open source so no way they can do anything.
Nah, you just have the mouse do a cryptographic handshake with the driver software and tie it to a server-side validation check, and thus if there's no handshake and validation, there's no working mouse.
Easy!
(Please don't read this Logitech.)
Now we need internet to use a mouse. Brilliant. :)
All we need to do now is somehow make it have an AI assistant and maybe put it on the blockchain somehow and wait what the fuck? They do?! https://www.logitech.com/en-us/software/logi-ai-prompt-builder.html
They are desperately looking how to actually use their AI investments... Companies are spending billions and they have no idea what to actually build that will be useful.
Probably end up using AI for ads. Fuck.
I can't wait for some shitty computerized voice to start telling me that, as a large language model, they highly recommend that I consider Taco Bell for dinner, because Taco Bell contains all the food-like products your body needs.
How is no one pointing out that a mouse subscription would make it so that if you missed a payment then (the majority of) people literally wouldn’t be able to re subscribe since, you know, most people use a mouse to do things on the internet.
Are they legally liable for lifetime support or are you signing away that right in the EULA and they can end support for your "lifetime" mouse on a whim?
What do you think? After they've sold all of them they'll release Lifetime Mouse 2.0, and cancel all the support for these, bricking your mouse.
Dumbest shit I've heard this week.
Switches that last forever would be interesting. Subscription models and sw updates for a mouse are the very opposite of interesting. I'd pay not to have either.
There are industrial switches that last practically forever. I've made some test robots for wearing out limit switches and the decent ones could be hammered constantly for days on end without a single miss.
Another component that doesn't wear out is a photo gate. It doesn't click or spring, though.
Actually just a decent keyboard switch would probably put up with a lot.
But it's cheaper to go cheap and you get more repeat business.
My $50 mouse has switches rated for 20 million clicks. Had it for 5 years and it still works flawlessly, but if they do ever wear out I can replace them.
I have a (mostly) forever mouse already. It has high quality Omron switches rated for millions of clicks, an Aliexpress page bookmarked as well as a soldering iron for when they need replacing. Anything that is "forever" only needs good quality components and the ability to repair whatever may go wrong. Any company that claims to sell something that either will not break or wear out is one to avoid. A good example I can think of is BMW who no longer put drain plugs on their transmissions for fluid replacement, their reasoning: "The fluid is for lifetime usage." while the small print states the "lifetime" is roughly 120k miles. Similar story with their "lifetime" timing chains too, except those weren't even lasting the small print mileage. Didn't stop them trying to sell customers the whole replacement engine too.
Source: God, don't make me replace *another* BMW transmission. I'm ti*red*.
MangoPenguinWhat mouse if you don't mind sharing?
My Logitech G602 technically has high quality Omron switches but only on left/right click, the middle click and the rest use crappy little tactile switches that last about 6 months before I need to replace them.
I've got a G502 Hero. I'd heard lots of complaints about the line after buying it but I haven't had any issues despite having it for a good few years now. I also had a M305 for something like a decade. A very simple little thing but lasted a long time. I replaced the switches for higher grade switches than factory and only replaced it because the rocker mounting for the mouse wheel tilt snapped, which I'm pretty certain was caused by a house move than any lack of quality.
What's the point of a mouse that lasts forever if your purchase doesn't?
I guess I'm not surprised enshittification of physical objects is becoming more of a trend than an oddity, but it's still happening sooner than I expected. :/
Nik282000Have you used a TV in the past 10 years?
Logitech has been on the decline for a while LGS was awesome replaced with the far inferior GHub. Now they're doing it with the physical hardware? Fuck y'all
GHub is a terrible piece of software, ugh.
I know, it's even worse when ya compare it to their previous software. They didn't just take a step backwards, I swear they went, how can we make the same software but make it worse in EVERY conceivable way. Then they did just that
I have a Logitech mouse and keyboard. I don't use their software even though it's free. Other than the shitty switches, it's a good mouse. Actually, the wireless connection isn't great compared to the G7 (I thought I was getting frame stutters at first until I realized it went away if I plugged my mouse in). And the battery not being easily removable is dangerous, as mine was swelling when I opened it up to replace one of those shitty switches a few weeks ago.
But if they do try it, they'll probably be quickly dethroned since mice and keyboards aren't exactly difficult to make and even today the wear and tear is because they wanted to save a buck or two on switches (or were tricked into thinking crappy switches were good ones).
A good mouse already lasts practically forever. I have been using the same MS Trackball Optical since 2002, original switches, new bearings after 15 years. As long as it directly translates XY motion and clicks in real space to XY motion and clicks in screen space the device is feature complete, no more value can be added via subscription service.
Don't do it, Logitech. Don't go full HP.
They already have with their planned obsolescence. At least HP printers tend to work if you give them blood of your first born ink.
My biggest problem with HP printers was their wifi components. It got to the point I was having to manually reconnect the unit to my wifi with every use until I was ready to throw it out my window. I never got the catharsis of that but I did get an Epson Ecotank with an ethernet port. Not had a problem since.
Both my mouse and keyboard are logitech and I love them, despite how terrible their software is in both stability and usability. The only reason I put up with the terrible software is because I only had to interact with it the one time to set up my color scheme and mouse dpi. Just trying to get the software to install to do that was terrible and that's what they want people to subscribe for, sounds dead on arrival to me.
DomiIf you want to get rid of their software, for the RGB part you can use OpenRGB instead. It runs on both Linux and Windows and can do pretty much any RGB controller (RAM, GPU, mainboard, mouse, keyboard, ...).
For changing DPI I use Piper but I don't think that one is available on Windows.
They both sound pretty good options. I looked real quick but didn't see an answer but do either of them allow you to save to the onboard memory of Logitech devices or does it only work with them running in the background?
Logitech already builds mice that will last a lifetime. This is just them deciding that they should get paid every month for that.
Great, Logitech wants to release Mouse as a Service (MaaS) now we also need Keyboard as a Service (KaaS), right? /s
We should shove it up the CEOs ass and make him pay us!
𝕽𝖚𝖆𝖎𝖉𝖍𝖗𝖎𝖌𝖍I haven't see any logi mouse which woudn't break after a year, quality is gone for 5+ years now for that brand. I'm more than happy with a noname Hama brand mouse costs half, lifetime 10x :D
I've probably used a few for closer to a decade. Especially the three button ones in the 90's (in Sgi granite) were nice.
Actually there's an optical wheel mouse of some sort right here on my desk that I think I got used with a computer in maybe 2012. Model stickers have fallen off, the plastic is worn down and even the metal plate at the top looks as if it had been sanded down. It says Logitech, though.
But those naturally aren't current models.
dvlsgI've had a couple of g pros that each lasted about 3 years.
Sure as hell wouldn't pay a monthly subscription for them, though.
Yeah, I can see more of this happening as demand for quality products increases.
Things that don’t need replaced don’t bring in more money year over year, which means they have to keep coming up with other excuses for you to buy a new one just to stay above water.
Any time purchases reach critical mass and mostly everyone has bought the “last gizmo you’ll ever need”, they’ll have to release the last-last gizmo you’ll ever need.
One-time purchase forever mouse would just mean once sales drop they need to release the forever-ever mouse, now with an extra button, then when that one peaks, the forever-and-ever mouse, with one more button than that.
Or they’ll hit a ceiling and go the way of Instant Pot.
It feels like a choice between rental(this) or rental with extra e-waste(any time you replace a cheaply made or planned obsolescence product) and it sucks.
So what they mean is we have received expensive garbage that had a short shelf life from the very beginning and they would now rather make a "quality" product and milk us dry for owning it? Sure sounds like a good idea for shareholders.
If i could choose one job it would be to fuck CEOs and shareholders with rusty razor blades.
OK, so, you're right. Let's be fair, though: this is capitalism. There are companies that make quality mice, and they are more expensive and don't compete at the same scale Logitech does. If Logitech made quality mice, they'd be more expensive, and even more consumers would look at and choose cheaper mice from their competitors.
Part of this is absolutely "margins & profit." Part is the veiled curse of online shopping: when you can't feel and handle the product, much more of shopper decision comes down to simply price: this is the T-Shirt Effect: if two online products look identical, but one is less expensive, most people are going to opt for the less expensive one. It's put established companies known for quality out of business, or driven their product quality down to compete. Part of it is that there are few reliable, authoritative review sources; many are barely disguised paid ads, or star-manipulation. The end sum is consumers voting with their dollars, and companies responding accordingly. Sales are down, your competitors' are up, people are choosing products you know are cheaper crap, and so it's obvious people prefer cheaper crap, so you make it.
It's a lose-lose for everyone except those companies able to quickly clone reputable products, but with lower-quality components, and flood the online market with them.
Low-quality, low-cost mass manufacturing has put products in the hands of people who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford them. But it's also driven down quality, and driven waste up; the same decision process being used by low-income folks is also used by middle-class, and with nearly all shopping being online, consumers have few options for a better process.
The equation changes when you get to the wealthy, who can shop with companies who aren't competing on volume, but reputation and margins: the Bang & Olufsens; the Breguets, and the Urban Jurgensens. People who can afford to shop with artisans shop differently, but all t-shirts look the same online.
I have no problem with buying more expensive, high quality stuff. The problem is that the higher price often simply means meaningless features instead of good durability. The mouse i am using right now cost me 150€ and i hoped it was more durable but the right click is already not working properly. Garbage.
If i could trust companies to actually put out stuff that lasts a life time i would love to have it. This however simply sounds like another move to increase the companies value for its shareholders.
Clothing is a whole other matter and again as consumer it is really hard to know whether your money goes to quality or simply marketing and "good feeling".
When everything you buy as a consumer tends to break fast they will have no real choice but to go for cheap crap.
CodexWhat would a mouse subscription even provide?
It infuriates me to see companies now co-opting the "forever X" language from the right-to-repair movement so that instead of "a well-constructed object you care for, repair, and use for multiple generations" it means "a thing you can pay a subscription on forever."
Logitech used to make such good hardware too. I have a pair of wired earbuds they made 15 years ago and they still work great, even after being accidentally machine washed. If any of their modern hardware was half that good they'd be all I buy.
V0ldekMy logi mouse doesn't have software like wtf are they talking about. It's a mouse?
"Logitech is seeking growth by appealing to the many people who don't own both a mouse and keyboard and by selling more expensive devices."
Lol. Magic thinking make line go up, forever. Shareholder expect 3% this quarter.
... I’m not planning to throw that watch away ever. So why would I be throwing my mouse or my keyboard away if it’s a fantastic-quality, well-designed, software-enabled mouse? The forever mouse is one of the things that we’d like to get to.
The watch you also don't need a subscription for? Great example, really.
SteveThing that sucks about this, despite how stupid a “forever” mouse concept is (that isn’t a project with titanium and replaceable parts) is that this is normal in the software realm. But the grift is so easily observable and absurd when it’s applied to hardware. It’s normal operations for SaaS. It’s what SaaS *is*.
As someone who has recently been spending a lot of time rolling my own USB devices, this would require logitech to form a gang and throw out the current USB standards and completely vertically integrate for this idea to not be an abject failure. I guess it could happen! But yeah in terms of who gets to rule over our inevitable cyberpunk dystopia, I just don’t think it’ll be Logitech. Unless they pivot to bionics.
*edit: am now thinking Logitech will definitely pivot to bionic limbs and you’ll have to configure them with logitech options, ugh
even hp already fucked off from this idea for less-used consumables, imagine being the product manager thinking you could make this fly for a decades-old computing peripheral people use literally daily
landlord brain truly is something remarkable
A mouse that lasts forever... until y'know, it breaks, because it's a piece of hardware that actively gets worn out.
geriksonIn my experience, mice don't really break since optical tracking replaced rollerballs.
What does happen is that the exterior gets grody and the glidepads wear out.
A true "forever mouse" would be one where the stuff that gets worn out is easy to clean or replace. Ideally the tracking unit itself can be replaced, although that might be excessive.
For Logitech to produce a mouse like this, however, would require them to make a multi-decade commitment to supply parts and specs, which is basically just a cost sink in today's world.
rookPloopy kinda fills that niche, as the bits are replaceable and the non-generic parts don’t require stuff like your own injection moulding equipment. Not quite there yet, nor do they have a the full range of stuff you might want (and what they do have isn’t cheap), but it’s a nice start.
Thanks for the link, I did not know about this outfit (and jeez, I know naming stuff is hard, but "Ploopy" is kinda bad as a company name).
While I appreciate what they're trying to do, the aesthetics are very much "hackerspace afficionado". Logi could presumably bring premium materials and finishing to a "forever mouse".
(and jeez, I know naming stuff is hard, but “Ploopy” is kinda bad as a company name).
Naming themselves after something which implies immortality would've been my pick - something like "Theseus", to suggest a Ship-of-Theseus kind of immortality, I dunno.
Hmm could be cutesier. Maybe Phesius. Pronounced faece-us
earthquake
sc_griffithapparently there was a yellow soda in the 90s named "urge." until now that was the worst product name I'd heard
In my experience, mice don’t really break since optical tracking replaced rollerballs.
Sadly they do, sometimes they stop being able to click, or do double clicks or other weirdness. I have gone through a few mice over the years. Oddly, the newer a mouse the more likely this seems to be the case. Don't throw away old but working peripherals.
I have been trying to navigate the current mouse market, I am hoping that these new fancy "good for 20 million clicks" switches that have migrated from mechanical keyboards over to mice mean that my next mouse will last for 20 years or so. Now to just find a way to differentiate between the 500,000 mice that are all at the €45 price point with the same form factor and specs.
yeah my 3~4y old logitech g502 has a button that's progressively been coming loose for some months now, and I don't think there's much I can do about it. switch seems fine, but ugh
very not keen to have to hunt for a replacement
Sailor Sega SaturnUgh the universe isn't fair all my favorite mice at home have broken while my work mouse is still going strong after most of a decade (well except for the glide pad which has indeed worn away into nothingness, now it glides on the grody exterior!)
Tracer Sniper was the best mouse ever made. It lasted me a decade until one day the sensor just passed away into the night.
I then replaced three mice in the past ~5 years, each and every single one of them because the wheel broke (either the middle click or the scroll)
ROFL They could keep that mouse in that case! Trying to normalize enshittification is a real cute look, makes me want to buy other than Logitech next time I make a keyboard and mouse purchase. I'll support System 76 or a slightly saner corporation with a mouse and keyboard purchase.
luciole (he/him)This whole uproar is just silly. At this time, most of us still using a mouse are smart enough to not fall for it. Everyone else is on their cell phones.
Plus, I gather it was merely an idea they floated. If they were somewhat serious at the outset, I doubt they are not with all the push back this story has generated.
selfThis whole uproar is just silly.
If they were somewhat serious at the outset, I doubt they are not with all the push back this story has generated.
this post is a fucking rollercoaster
Hilarious. Logitech’s software has always been an afterthought and now they want me to pay for it? Goooo fuck yourselves. I had to sell a perfectly good keyboard and mouse because their stupid g-hub is harder to navigate than a g-spot.
It kept doing updates and every time it did, it would clobber all my macros and bindings and basically factory reset. I had a txt document on my desktop with all my configs so I could set them back up whenever it decided the configuration gods required a sacrifice.
G-hub also doesn't work on Linux, which is actually a massive advantage. I use Solaar with a couple of shell scripts and it's amazing. (edit) Actually it's a Python app, so it might even work on Windows.
I've also had to blacklist the HID++ kernel module because high-res scrolling on a *loose*, *mushy* ratcheting wheel is awful.
I started boycotting them when they started forcing a program to be downloaded, installed and run automatically on any pc running Windows 10 just by plugging a Logitech mouse/keyboard in to the USB port.
It installes through Windows Update, and is called Logitech Download Helper.
I am fine with Windows Update supplying and installing drivers, but using it to deploy program is scummy...
So now, I am on Xtrfy mice and Ducky keyboards.
.....I feel sorry for your girlfriend/wife.
Go on, tell us how you work the spot, G Man.
You basically have to go behind the clitoris and stimulate it from the back while working it from the front with your tongue.
Damn you got a lucky mouse
Almost spat out my food, thanks
Our boys dick looks like the lower case letter 'u' well done
🤷♂️ My girl just lays on top of me and rides up and down along me, and that seems to do the trick. Not every time, mind you. But that's the position that does it, if it happens.
Which is freaking great for me because I love that position. 🤤 Lots of skin on skin.
For hours.
Hours! Then you ain't hittin' it, son.
My girlfriend doesn’t have one, teehee 🤭
G Hub doesn't work with my old trusty G11 keyboard either. Since it's both required for Logitech's newer peripherals and also requires uninstalling the old Logitech Gaming Software which would reduce the functionality of my keyboard, it effectively banishes any future consideration for Logitech's peripherals.
It's basically moot since I run Linux now, but I don't fancy the quality of Logitech's products either these days. It's a shame since their stuff used to be really solid. My X540 speakers are as old as my keyboard (16 years) and also refuse to die.
A comment on the article: "I will go back to a command line before I pay a fucking subscription for a mouse."
A mouse is not a complex device. African countries can produce computer mice. I mean, using USB requires paying for the license and circuitry for the USB controller, which is why I hate USB for simple periphery, older interfaces solve the problem better. Anyways, they can produce USB mice too. They can even easier produce PS/2 mice.
Damn, that's pretty racist. You know I come from an "African country" that produces Mercedes right, or like, did the first heart transplant.
Im not sure what you're trying to infer by what you're saying, like we're all some backwards ass fuckwits with 0 ability to do anything? Fuck, we used to produce our own RAM at a stage. Nuclear bombs even.
South Africa excluded as a former colonial state.
I live in Russia, I could have written "ex-USSR and African countries" so that you'd not feel offended. Would have the same meaning.
Point being having actual electronics production and not assembly.
The irony of somebody from Russia calling anywhere else a shithole is just profound. Don't you guys have to pour water in your toilets to flush them? The rest of the world has indoor plumbing mate, *even* Africa.
Anyway everyone knows that China produces all of the cheap crap anyway, so why wouldn't you go at them?
Are you high or something? Why would we?
I would expect an entire continent to have some variability.
China produces all of the crap. Without the "cheap" constraint.
Russia is a shithole
Not in every dimension, but in that of producing computer mice yes it is. Which is all that is relevant to this conversation.
By the way, I know that sub-Saharan Africa in general is becoming better very fast, and that Sahel has record population growth, and that Africa as a continent has bright future.
While Russia may hope for that only after a fucking revolution.
These are just irrelevant.
Isn't USB like...a mandatory standard now on all devices?
It's complex enough if you are making some hobbyist device.
I'm imagining some world with production of anything related to personal computers being as decentralized as that of hand screwdrivers.
In that context USB is complex.
USB is better for modern computing since it doesnt operate on an interrupt basis, like PS2, that's the problem with PS2, USB is polling based, so it always calls, which also means it's a lot more versatile and flexible, because you can just call and receive whatever the fuck you want from it.
If you were to use PS2 today, you would likely see a significant performance impact.
Apparently nobody understood in which context this was said.
I meant a Star Wars Expanded Universe-like or solarpunk-like or some other imagined future (but with that element of utopia) world where computers are produced as widely as screwdrivers, are more modular and interoperable and competencies are also more widespread, and where computing is radically simpler due to these two requirements. Because you can't have TSMC fabs everywhere.
USB is by far too complex a protocol for this when you don't necessarily need it.
Also many motherboards still have PS/2 , no significant performance impacts, you might have mixed something up. Anyway, from a computer mouse you don't need much.
it's mostly a legacy thing, either industry boards which are used with windows 95, or boards that just include PS2 because, features™
well, part of the problem is that in order to handle mouse inputs, the PS2 calls an interrupt which stops the entire cpu and forces it to focus on the user input, until it kills it likely over a cycle count metric, and then returns back to what it was doing, though perhaps this was back in the day when interrupts were more common, i wouldn't be surprised if modern PS2 is just conversion into USB lmao.
you can argue that USB is complex, and it's not all that complex, it's just serialized data transmission, the benefit of it's "complexity" being the massively increased transmission bandwidth compared to something like serial, which is like 32kb/s historically.
Yes, I know. I should clarify that all this was in the context of some imagined future sustainable computing with decentralized production and a bit of luddism.
As in "how would we live in spacefaring future if the PCs we could have were all comparable to Amiga 500".
that's definitely an interesting thought, i would figure it's probably the most primitive source of communication, I.E. directly managed serial, or probably ethernet, which has an extremely broad range of applications, and standards, from anything from coaxial cables and ring networks, to twisted pair serialized transmission and switched tree networks.
I've already got a "forever mouse".
I plug it in, it needs no updates because it's a fucking mouse.
I was intrigued by the idea, I was like, "oooh a modular mouse where it could be a trackball or vertical mouse or multi-sensor components with obvious replacement parts that they'd sell to make it easy on repair"!
Then I saw software and I'm like wtf? do I look like I need something else to Crowdstrike me? "Can't work today boss, credit card didn't update my mouse subscription hang on...."
!fucksubscriptions@lemmy.world
Oh man I was hoping this would be a sub for alternatives to subscriptions, rather than just pointing out that everything is going to a subscription model.
It's not against the rules of that community to post alternatives. I suspect the community members would love that.
Alternative to subscription based mouse.......any other fucking mouse. Hell, I'd rather use that piece of crap they sell at walgreens for $15.99. It looks like crap, has only 2 buttons, is wired, but it doesn't have a damn subscription.
I got two like that from China for about 2 bucks each, shipping included.
Nowadays a shitty 15 cent microcontroller comes with built-in USB hardware support and you can use the manufacturer's libraries or even Arduino to make it talk as a keyboard or mouse with any computer (which doesn't even need drivers since support for it is built-in) and it's actually the mechanical stuff that's the most expensive bit.
There really is no reason or need to endure this mouse subscription shit.
I like my Intellimouse Pro. I haven't had a single issue with clicking or scrolling for as long as I've had it (5+ years?). It's a bit pricey, but it works well. I've spent more replacing Logitech mice in the time I've had that one.
are mice not supposed to have only 2 buttons????? (excluding scroll wheel)
Mine has left click, right click, scroll wheel, back, forward, and a programable button which I use to switch windows.
My Halo account name is fuckmandatorysignins@personalDomain.com
Fuck you Microsoft, fuck you Logitech, if the Internet goes down, I'm fucked...
I always give “companyname@personaldomain.com”
That way datasets are harder to correlate and I know who leaked 😝
That’s what I’ve been doing since 2002. If I get spam, I set up a forward to their customer service.
Lol! I need to start doing something like this when one of those email addresses eventually ends up in a breach. :D
Be wary though, it might get your domain blacklisted for spam. I’ve been lucky so far.
Good to know! Thanks for the warning. c: My default course of action will likely be just disabling the old alias and making a new one.
Oh neat, I think I might subscribe to that community.
Wait a goddamned minute
corporate brain rot
Uh, what would I be paying for, exactly? I don't really see what Software support a mouse really needs, as long as it doesn't ship buggy. Also, I've been using my (Logitech, funnily) mouse for 6 years now, and if you ignore the few scratches it has gathered, it still works pretty much perfectly.
Also, if their solution for a longer lasting mouse really is repairability, isn't that just their way of saying "we designed our other products to be thrown away"?
You would be paying for the privilege of using a Logitech mouse of course!
The company has to grow indefinitely and you my friendly consumer are the back on which they will walk to do so.
Don't worry I'm sure they'll never acquire smaller and successful manufacturers that risk undermining their profit structures.
You've had more luck than us. My wife went through two Logitech G305s in like 2 years, so I switched her to a Razor DeathAddr and she's been much happier.
At work, I use macOS so I went with MX Master 3 and had constant issues with the thumb button not working. It's better now (I guess their SW improved?), and ironically I had far fewer issues with my Triathlon (when I WFH), which is much cheaper.
On my personal devices (Linux), I use Microsoft Intellimouse Pro. It has been solid for over 5 years. I plugged it in and it just works. The only thing remarkable about it is how little I think about it, it clicks, scrolls, and reads input consistently. If Logitech could do that, I'd probably buy more of their stuff, but I've mostly had issues.
It's a MX Master 2S, funnily enough. I still have a over 10 year old working M705 Marathon, on second thought, that I had once bought for my laptop. Had to open it up and bend the mechanism for the left click back into shape once, but no Problems besides.
If it gets to the point where we have to pay a monthly fee to use computer peripherals I'm going to dedicate all my spare time to making open source alternatives. Become ungovernable.
There's already plenty of open source alternatives. Mouse drivers are relatively simple.
Make it repairable if you want it to last forever.
I think cleanable is more important.
I had a Razer Diamondback for like 20 years, and let me tell you, the insides of that were not a pretty sight when I took it apart to work out why the mouse wheel was glitchy. Two decades of crumbs and pubes and assorted hand gunk.
Plus the rubber tends to get a bit tacky after a while, and I'm not sure of a good way to clean that.
I think ten years is a decent lifespan for something I use all the time like that. More is a bonus, but I'm happy to replace after that time.
Mice seem to be a stagnant tech, not sure I need another one for the rest of my life.. if I could fix middle wheel click and replace parts like the rubber side that has worn away.
Cleaning is maintenance, a part of repair in my eyes 😊
It's like TEL9 (a piece of technology that is so perfected, that at this point there's no further improvements that can be made to it, see the paper clip, TEL10 is literally obsolete technology like the bow and arrow). The weird thing is there are companies out there that still seem to think that they can make money off of TEL9 tech.
No one thinks they can make big bucks off of paper clips, but CEO's brains turn to mush as soon as it's got a circuit board.
That was specifically one of the goals talked about in the actual interview and the CEO spent a lot more time on that than the topic in the headline.
Lol I actually had to check to make sure this wasn't published on April 1st. Missed joke opportunity, this is hilarious
This is so absurd. The only updates peripherals need are firmware bug fixes. And it's a standard that these updates are free. Having subscriptions for hardware is kinda dystopic tbh
From the podcast:
You know why on average people spend so little? Because a mouse is just a mouse. It doesn't need to do anything besides controlling the cursor. It doesn't need a "dedicated AI button that launches Logi AI Prompt Builder" (which is just a ChatGPT wrapper btw)
I don't want to be that one person that just complains about capitalism under every post, but things like this make it hard. We have already perfected the design of a mouse. But every year publicly traded companies need to make more money than in the previous year, so let's add subscriptions to everything. And also AI, because investors love it
Deleted by moderator
Yeah, apparently the subscription for the mouse would be on top of the upfront cost. I'm honestly baffled that Logitech's CEO thinks anyone would buy it, this feels like an april fools joke
Wait so the subscription literally doesn't cover anything it's just the money I pay to Logitech for no reason?
I just skimmed through the podcast so I might be wrong, but it looks like the subscription would only cover updates to their AI "features":
What can I say? I see "Capitalism bad" and I upvote.
I agree. We collectively overconsume, where are the manufacturers with pride in building quality devices that just work?
I'm a hardware engineer, I'd be embarrassed to release some of the shit I've seen onto the market for public consumption.
The rules are simple: solid state where you can, robust enclosures that can withstand common cleaners & IV exposure, geometry that makes it difficult for those cleaning fluids to get into the electronics. That's it, you've got most people covered with a reliable device to interact with daily. Pinch pennies on the RGB LEDs, not the housing!
Yeah because it's a mouse. What extra features is it going to have if I paid $100.
I will learn to build a mouse and write my own damn drivers first.
I actually know how to do this off the top of my head and you don't need to write a driver for it, you could simply use an Arduino Micro.
The Micro (and other Arduino-compatible Atmel ATMEGA 32u4-based microcontrollers) have native USB support so they have a library you can import that will work with generic USB keyboard/mouse drivers. It would be up to you to rig up the sensors and buttons, make a case and write a little firmware.
Nice! Thank you!
Coming from the same side as you, in my experience just about any microcontroller that includes USB hardware support (which is very common even in the stupidly cheap ones) has software support for acting as a mouse or keyboard, not just via the Arduino framework but also in the manufacturer's libraries.
This is because the comms for that stuff in USB is an USB standard called USB HID (stands for Human Interface Device) which works not just for mice and keyboards but also for stuff like joysticks, game controllers and so on.
Meanwhile on the computer side, also because of all of this being standardized, support comes include in the OS and no drivers are needed. In fact even back in Windows 7 when you might need to install a driver, all that the "driver" was, was a text file telling the OS to, for a USB device with a specific ID (USB devices identify themselves using a two number code), use the OS' built-in USB HID support.
Nowadays the difficult part in making a good mouse or a keyboard is the mechanical side, not the hardware or software.
Unsurprisingly you can buy a basic mouse for 2 bucks from places like Aliexpress that's actually decent and reliable.
I really have no clue how Logitech expects to get away with this idea of theirs. Maybe they intend to leverage Brand loyalty for it?
Yeah what Arduino brings to the table is easily purchasable electronics and reference material/tutorials written for middle schoolers and not electrical engineers to understand. They invent basically nothing but make things more accessible.
The thing I would need to do the most googling on is the actual XY sensor. I don't know off the top of my head how available an optical mouse sensor is, or if you'd have to build a ball mouse, etc. I have occasionally played with USB HIDs but never for anything legitimate.
What the actual ever living fuck happened in their brain to create this thought
Endless meetings all focused around creating value for shareholders at any expense
Capitalism
That's just it - his brain is in a state of decay.
They're putting fentanyl in the cocaine now.
I think she's a her in this case.
I only saw "exec" in the description, mb.
I have an idea for Logitech: Go fuck yourselves
I will stop using a mouse and get really good with hotkeys rather than pay a subscription.
Tiling window managers and vim keybindings are your friends
Nah, emacs keybindings are better for things like window managers, and I say this as a vim-o-phile. Use emacs-style keybindings for anything interactive, use vim-style keybindings for text.
I do this as much as I can already, but certain tasks have no hotkey in aware of :/
Gonna be trapped in a VM forever when my mouse dies.
Then they'll make you get a keyboard subscription...
logitech's software is trash across the board.
Have their MX keyboard and their logi+ software regualrly craps out making the function/special keys unusable until i log off/back on. Sometimes WHILE im using the keyboard.
And their gaming stuff is no better. Many times just having the logitech g suite software running means my mic will randomly stop working, if i remove the software the headset runs fine.
Their hardware is solid, but there is a 0% chance i would pay for their software.
I use their G Hub to remap my mouse buttons and sometimes my config just gets ignored and I increase mouse sensibility instead of pausing the music
I've found that's because their mice will go to sleep and upon first waking they'll briefly use an onboard profile before switching to the G Hub profile. This is also why it might feel like it has a different DPI briefly or different light settings for just a flash. The only way to fix this is to use their totally separate OnboardMemoryManager software to change the onboard settings while running G Hub. It solved this issue for me and it's infuriating that this isn't built into G Hub...
Interesting, I'll give that a try before switching to something else entirely. Thank you.
Give autohotkey a try instead. I was able to get rid of the Logitech software because of it.
I used to swear by their K350 keyboard unified with their mouse, so much so that I bought the exact same models at work. After 10+ years and key prints rubbing off one of them started to get choppy...and around the same time the other did as well. Since they don't make them anymore and are pure Bluetooth with connections I had to find a refurbed one on Amazon. And even that one got questionable after a few months.
Great, my money is good to go. I'll pay big for something that's easy to keep clean and doesn't have that horrible sticky rubber after a few years.
I'm out.
This was my reaction too when I read the title, complete with curiosity about what they mean with "forever".
Forever: until we decide that we no longer want to maintain the product, rendering it useless and forcing you to by whatever we replace it with
I don't want a hardware that always needs updates. Are they stupid?
Here's my rule of thumb:
Mice are firmly in the second category. In fact, I think cars are in the second, and any features that need internet access should go through my phone.
The problem is ALL of the other subscription services available now are thriving even with all the massive price hikes this just invited companies like this to jump on the bandwagon. It's ridiculous how nearly everything has some kind of subscription service...
Well, libratbag doesn't.
Haha more like a never mouse
I really hope there aren't people stupid enough to buy or even want that.
How exactly are software updates supposed to extend the life of a mouse?
I get that theoretically with a subscription, they could offer to replace your mouse if the hardware broke. (Sortof like an extended warranty that you reup every month or year or whatever. Not that that isn't a scam, but I can at least see how it could maybe look good on paper to certain people.) But that has nothing to do with software.
If the software breaks due to a software problem (and, be honest, how many people in the history of the world have ever had a mouse break due to a software problem?), I'd think it would be unlikely you could get an update to the mouse. And if the hardware breaks, the chance that it can be fixed (or even worked around) with a software update seems negligible.
Are they thinking with software updates they'll make it continue to support newer wireless communication protocols that don't exist yet or some BS like that? Not that that makes sense either.
Am I missing something or is the BS in this idea more evident than in most?
That's exactly the point I don't get. Every single mouse I owned, I've replaced it because something physically broke. My previous mouse (Logi btw) was replaced because the scroll wheel and middle click stopped working, no software or firmware update would amend that!
Many moons ago, in the dark ages of Windows Vista, I had a laptop where the trackpad stopped working permanently after a specific Windows Update.
some of their higher end mice let you call specific functions of popular productivity software, like using the scroll wheel to change the brush size in Photoshop for example
When companies that sell physical products like peripherals (as an example) try to invoke the subscription model, it just says that they are failing and desperate for profits. Which means that other products are available and better.
I’m kind of surprised they haven’t decided to do what MS does with controller, or smart watch manufacturers do with watch bands. Create unique collectible colors, have a design lab, etc. Let people treat mice like sunglasses. A fashion accessory that you occasionally change or augment for aesthetic reasons.
I don’t need a new mouse ever year, but I might be down to change it’s shell.
Please don't. we already produce and waste a lot of plastic as it is
Except their mice are built better and last longer than any of the popular gaming brands. I've owned 4 logitech nice in my life and that would be every mouse I've owned since 1995 and only one of those actually died. People complain about their razer mice lasting 3 years and then go out and buy another one as if that's normal meanwhile you can easily get 5+ years out of a logitech mouse.
I have owned 3 G203 mice (never again) and they have all failed the same way, with the left mouse button switch failing and causing double clicks/inability to select anything without resetting.
Quality must depend on which model you get.
I only go for their higher end productivity mice so I can't say much about their gaming gear. It seems like gaming mice, regardless of the brand, typically have shorter lifespans. Either that or gamers are just more vocal when there are issues.
I used to only buy logitech, but having a $125. mouse freak out after a few years, and I never game, that's sad.
5 years isn't a long lifespan.
Only one ever died on me (brother spilled beer on it) and that was after 6ish years. The rest were upgrades to newer models. My current mouse (mx master) is coming up on 8 years and I'm debating between replacing the battery or getting a newer model but it still works as well as it ever has.
Side question since this concept is obviously rent seeking... Why is there not a market for premium custom mice like there are for keyboards?
All the mice over the ~$80 range seem to only be gamer mice or focus on adding more and more buttons. Why aren't there options that are customizable or more premium?
I get that no one wants a solid machined aluminum mouse but surely there is something more premium than adding more buttons.
Custom keyboards took off because of mechanical switches. Back in the day people wanted mechanical switches because they last longer than membrane ones, and so you wound up with a bunch of companies producing relatively easy to manufacture mechanical switches. Those switches all felt and sounded a little different so you got people who wanted a specific feel and sound and it grew from there.
There hasn't really been the same push with mice because even really cheap ones work really well. Optical sensors are way harder to produce than key switches, and while there are a few different ones on the market other than dpi and polling rate they kind of all act the same - it kind of either tracks right or it doesn't. There's no differentiation unlike switches that are "tactile" or "linear" or "scratchy". And because of size restrictions you can't really have the same kind of switches as keyboards use for the buttons. And unlike the really niche keyboard people who do their own PCB and machine their own case, making a good mouse on your own from scratch is way more difficult. They're weird shaped and it's much more difficult to change things like optical tracking algorithms compared to macros on a 40% keyboard. You can do a run of 100 super niche keyboards and make it work, but just the injection molds for one mouse mean you need to make 10000, which stops it being a project and makes it a business.
There are premium mice manufacturers, but in general they either are going super light, super ergonomic, or super functional - and honestly they have a hard time competing with a company like Logitech that can produce really similar features for a fraction of the cost and have a decent reputation to boot.
But the Ploopy mouse already exists.
It's trackball that are premium in fact
This shit is so absurd. I've had to replace several mouses because of the scroll wheel, until I began opening and saw that it was basically programmed obsolescence that was easy to fix. Logitech has seen how rampant programmed obsolescence is in cheap mouses and is basically taking advantage of it.
My issue is double-clicking. I would like it to be much easier to replace switches.
I've found liberal amounts of contact cleaner to solve inadvertent double clicking.
mice
Meece
No thank you, and get fucked.
this type of shit should be illegal
Maybe they could, like, put good switches in their high end mice? And building them in a modular, repairable way?
I had a G903 with the wireless charging pad. The switches starting going bad within a year. I tried replacing those switches with higher quality ones, but a ribbon cable broke while getting it apart. The ribbon cable had one end sealed inside a module, so you have the replace that whole thing. Ended up writing the whole thing off and bought a Glorious (which are quite nice).
Won't touch their high end mouses anymore. Their cheap wireless mice are still pretty good and will run on a single AA battery forever (how? I don't know). Why do they cut corners on the high end of the market?
I have 15 year old Logitech mice and kids. They were the reference brand. I recently bought a pebble mouse, because of the dual connectivity. It’s crap
A 15 year old Logitech probably isn't a comparison to a new one Planned obsolescence was a thing 15 years ago but not nearly as widespread as it is now.
Luckily I can buy a perfectly decent mouse that lasts forever for £5
As long as it's not that god awful ThinkPad mouse that every corporation seems to give people.
my forever mouse is a 15+ years old mx518
Right? If it was a g604 I might be tempted...
Wait is this an onion?
Arent mouse already "forever" mice. Like what goes wrong in them? I've never had a wired laser mouse fail, and the batteries ones I usually lose the adapter or let it corrode before the mouse actually fails
And if anything I only buy a new mouse for aesthetics. Or when their old mouse is grody
The switches eventually fail, but most mice use the same Omron switches and they are easy enough to replace if you know how to solder. The teflon skates wear out too, but you can find replacement for most name brand mice online.
I had the wheel button stop working on it once, it was still usable, just annoying, when I needed to do a middle click.
Also that happened after a decade of use.
I've had buttons stop working. The mechanism inside that registers the click is a mechanical switch and they eventually die
That's planned obsolescence. They cover the mouse in soft touch plastic that turns to glue in 5 years. It ensures that you buy a new mouse every 5 years while claiming they are reliable.
I read that acetone transforms the gluely soft touch coating to hard plastic. I did it to my old Logitech when it got grody and it is still not grody after 20 years.
This is my pet peeve of modern electronics in general. Even my $3000 work-supplied Dell laptop is coated in this soft touch material that will inevitably turn into a gooey mess after a few years 🤦♂️
Also own a second-hand tablet computer that feels disgusting and sticky to hold because the soft touch coating has degraded so badly on it 😭
I fixed a bunch of ThinkPad laptops that were turning into sticky messes, I put a movie on, used a whole bunch of goo off and stripped all of the sticky plastic off of the devices. Now they feel great
By "forever" they mean you will be paying them forever for the privilege of using the mouse. Unless you break it that is, or they feel like they no longer want to support it at which point it will likely become a forever brick.
Ask a razer user if their mouse/keyboard last forever.
Yes, mice are forever mice. That’s the problem, it’s just a one time sell.
I don't know how they think I could afford subscriptions for every object in my life. There's no way
You have several 'backup' organs, just saying.
Well… they don’t think about you at all except for wanting to squeeze money out of you. If that takes literally squeezing you in a hydraulic press they’d do it as long as the penalty was financial (not jail time for the CEO) but also that the penalty cost was less than the profit they got from murdering you.
This is how every company is now, every billionaire. It sounds like an extreme thought, yes, but .. the absolute ultimate greed is also extreme 🤷♂️
To be fair... I read the whole interview a few days ago, she was kind of pushed into this statement. The idea from the CEO was presented as a high-end luxury mouse that you'd treat like a fancy watch you could just repair and never need to replace. The closest we got to Logitech saying this was the interviewer asking if they could ever see a subscription being attached to the mouse and the CEO saying 'possibly' and then implying that it could be something like a maintenance/repair contract so that you would never have to worry about your mouse.
This whole ordeal was mostly just poor form in interviewing where the interviewer pushed the interviewee into a statement that they knew would be good clickbait.
Unless it were like $0.20 a month which is equivalent to buying a $25 every ten years, there's no point.
But they will probably try and charge something stupid like $5 a month or $10 a month for their supreme collectors edition package.
And even then, I'd rather not have to keep paying for a subscription that could stop and brick my mouse at any time when they decide to "consolidate their product offerings" like Spotify did with the Car Thing. (plus, card fees would mean they'd actually be losing $0.05-$0.10 or more off the purchase price every time your card gets charged, at that price point)
I’ll pass
I already pay a subscription when I have to keep buying the hardware designed to break. I don't think I've ever had a middle mouse button working for long.
It's so much bullshit and it's getting shittier.
I can vouch for that. For me it's the scroll wheel.
I've been through a Logitech G703 and a Corsair Sabre Pro and both failed the same way. I've also seen it happen to a Razer Deathadder Essential. The shitty mechanical encoder goes janky after a few months and basically makes scrolling unusable, as scrolling the mouse wheel either doesn't get detected or is interpreted as going the opposite direction. Yeah they can be 'fixed' by either blasting air into it which sometimes works for a bit or worst case, soldering on a replacement encoder, but even that's just a temporary fix as it's only a matter of time before that fails too. I can't deal with unreliability like that.
Older mice more commonly used to use optical encoders which tend to last much longer but finding a new mouse with an optical encoder isn't as easy. I finally broke down and got a Zowie the other day which should hold up a bit better in theory and only time will tell. I feel silly spending so much on a mouse, but I just want one that works.
Unclear if you're talking about technology, or life.
Hmm.... yes.
I don't understand what you all are doing with your mice. I've had mine for years, and the one before it, years. I only changed because I wanted to upgrade, too.
Meanwhile I'm always on Discord with my buddy complaining that his mouse broke, *again*. This mf fingers must weigh a fk ton bruh.
I just like to middle-click things. I opened a Logitech mouse once and found out that the bridge that presses the button internally is way thinner than a toothpick and my frail little fingers are stronger than it for inexplicable reasons. :(
lots of people smack their mice on the table out of rage.
Do that a lot, and they will not last very long
I wish it were my unmanageable rage, but it's usually a regular old click that does them in. Maybe I have superhuman strength in my index finger and haven't noticed it.
If it's a G502/702, they've got a very fucky scroll wheel & middle click; it's actually a lemon, but since nothing else works with the wireless pads they're the only options.
I miss when they had good hardware for a reasonable price. Some of my cheap original Logitech laser mice are still going, almost 2 decades later. Obviously not super heavy use as the switches have not worn out, but they've been shifted about the house as other mice break. So certainly not 0 use either.
The tasks have been things like our old media centre mouse died, the old Logi mouse "temporarily" replaced it until we replaced the media centre. It's not been unused any longer than a few months at a time.
We tried buying some recently but the new ones are all optical so they had shit performance and died after maybe 3 months of light use.
Well that means I need to find a new mouse because of them even suggesting this crap. I really like my MX Master. Beefy with some weight.
Or just buy 4-5 now and last the next decade.
Shame there’s no a mechanical mouse movement to create an industry of high quality alternatives we can buy.
There's some OSH designs for trackballs and "ultra light weight gaming mice", not much for the more standard stuff, just like with most mech keyboards, which are primarily for enthusiasts, often with "deck flex" for a "softer bottom out feel" (and shorter life).
In other words: They want me to never buy a Logitech product ever again. Fuck you greedy corporate shitpiles!
I have mice that I bought 35 years ago that still work. I had to replace the buttons on one I got 20yrs ago, but it’s a daily driver and the switches are hella cheap and like a 5min solder job. Make them socketed and it’s now a forever mouse. Done.
Yeah, maybe work on making their switches not start double-clicking after a couple of years first.
I'm on my third-or-fourth one that has done this to me. Once this one gets too bad (they inevitably do) I am through with them. It's a shame because I really do like their peripherals. The mouse that convinced to keep buying them was an excellent device that lasted a very long time and I only replaced because it was a dinosaur. I used their solar powered keyboard for a decade-and-a-half, too, until I accidentally dropped something on it and broke it. Now, the switches in their mice die on me after a year or two without fail. They've clearly cheaped out on components. Fuck em. Goodbye Logitech. I will not miss their software.
I went down a rabbit hole when my mouse started double clicking wanting to know why, especially compared to older mice that seem to last forever. turns out the switches themselves technically haven't changed or even dropped in quality much over the years, they've always used the same shit-tier switches. many modern mice use too low of a voltage and operate out of spec, and the otherwise good enough switches don't hold up. here's an hour+ long youtube video about it if you want all the details.
it's bullshit that it's necessary, but if you're willing to solder in new switches you can get better quality ones that will outlast the rest of the mouse for ~$5-10.
That might be worth it. I'll have to see if I can find those switches.
most logitech mice use the same switches, any Japanese Omron switches will work (avoid the Chinese Omrons). here's an amazon link to a 2-pack. there's also a bunch of other switch types nearly as varied as keyboard switches, these are what I put in my mouse, but if you're just looking to stop the double-clicking the Japanese Omrons are the way to go.
Oooh. I'm sure I can find those in Korea. Thanks!
I just wish I could find another mouse with the same form factor as the G602/604. That button layout on the side is so nice. I go looking for an alternative every now and then but nothing I've found matches it so I'm stuck. I'm on my third 602 and fortunately it seems to be the charm because I've had this one for several years and it's still going strong but it's certainly annoying that I had to RMA 2 of them to get a lasting one. I also had to do the same with 2 of their headsets. They didn't even have me send the mouse back last time so I have a second one with a double click problem laying around here somewhere I might see about swapping the switch out one of these days. and yea, the software does suck.
the switches are pretty straightforward to swap out, fwiw. fairly large and reasonably spaced pins to solder compared to any other mouse hardware. tbh the disassembly and reassembly of my g604 to get to them was more effort than replacing the switches themselves.
Yea, I actually replaced the spring inside the switch on the mouse with one out of a mouse I "disposed of" at the place I was working at the time. It got me a few more years out of it.
That's the one I'm using now. I like the buttons, too. I also find I only really use them in some pretty niche cases, so I can probably do without.
On my 602 I have them set for switching browser tabs, forward, back, copy, paste, right click>save as, and shift. Those get a lot of use. Then I have specific profiles for some games/apps I use. I would miss that a lot if I had to switch.
Oooh, some of those sound like a really good idea. I'm only using mine for forward and back in browser, but next tab sounds good. Copy and paste, too.
The annoying thing is that fixing the double click is stupidly easy. Years ago, I got frustrated with that exact problem (after a string of 3 mice that each lasted only a few months); so I opened one up and soldered on a random capacitor I had lieing around.
Capacitors like that cost literally less than a penny, and are no more complicated to install at production time than any other component already on the circuit board.
I didn't know it was a capacitor. I thought it was bent springs. I managed to fix one once by opening up the switches and bending the springs back, but it went back to double clicking within a month, and the process was not easy. I've got huge hands, and those switches are tiny.
The actual difference between a working new mouse and a failing double click mouse is in the button itself (mechanical parts are almost always the problem).
However, it is not some exotic failure mode. All mechanical switches have a "bounce", where the contact makes and breaks a few times before settling into the connected position. Switches are typically designed to make the actual contact spring loaded (which is the origin of the click sound you here). As they age, this mechanism degrades, making the bouncing problem worse.
However, this is a well understood problem that any electrical engineer should be familiar with. One solution is to install a filter capacitor. Now it takes longer to switch between the on and off state, so the inherent bounce in the switch is smoothed out to the point where you cannot detect it.
They probably did testing with a new switch, and decided that they didn't need to include any explicit debounce component, ignoring the fact that the switch would degrade over its lifetime.
So, the capacitor can mitigate the spring weakening. Good to know. Replacing a cap is probably much easier than taking the switches apart and bending the springs.
Ah yes, the industry first MaaS. What will they think of next. *nuclear facepalm*
!nottheonion@lemmy.world
2 years from now: “Why are Logitech sales down?”
Fucking MBAs
It really feels like they developed a revenue stream prior to developing a product. All we've heard is some "Ai features" would be a subscription service, but their software has been preety universally mid at best, and AI is starting to see some backlash. We are seeing companies try to cram AI into everything even when it has no purpose being there. I get the feeling that companies are starting to catch onto this AI investments have become ridiculously expensive and have provided nearly zero additional value to their products and services.
As a Linux user, I don't even know what features their software has, nor do I particularly care. If it points and clicks, I'm happy.
What I want from Logitech is to make mice that point and click more reliably, and ideally make them repairable. I hate throwing out mice just because of a double-click issue when I could just replace a sensor or something.
Here's my proposal:
That's what everyone big and well bribed in with regulators and such does today.
This is obviously true.
Not that a commercial company shouldn't do that.
It's just - what exactly are they going to sell? What need are they going to fulfill, what bottleneck are they going to widen, what river cross with a bridge? For customers, of course.
Lmao what happens if you don't pay?
Oh Deere!
A brand, that hasn't sold anything with good software/firmware, is trying to make a software-focused product. Peak comedy
But the Ploopy mouse already exists.
The site apparently doesn’t resizes images in a smart way.
Or these mice need a diet.
This is awesome. Totally open source mouse. You can 3D print new pieces, you can update the QMK firmware with your own custom firmware, you can change the buttons....
Really, I'm not against this model if it were simply a low monthly fee to rent hardware and have it perpetually fixed and maintained. For a mouse I couldn't imagine more than $1-2. I would feel good paying that knowing that the mouse wouldn't go onto the trash heap when it stopped working well.
But of course that's not what they are thinking. They are thinking you still pay an exorbitant up front cost, plus you pay an exorbitant subscription on top of that.
plus if it ever breaks they're 100% just swapping a new one in and deleting the old one, it's not cost effective to repair a fucking mouse lmao.
Yes the idea of fixing is less compelling for a mouse than other technologies. But I would still feel better if I knew they did fix just the part that was broken rather than chucking the whole thing out.
i can see the appeal, but it's also a mouse, so i would rather it just not be built like shit from the get go, but that's me.
That or be built and designed to be repairable, that way i can fix it, or someone near me could fix it for me, something like that is also acceptable. I'd be curious whether the shipping and man hours prior to and post to fixing the mouse would actually incur more cost and waste than just, deleting it from existence.
it would need to be a damn low monthly fee, I paid like 20$ for my razer deathaddr on sale(I know not Logitech), and it's going on year 7 or 8 with daily use no issues, I expect I'll have to replace it soon but, in my eyes even 1-2$ monthly is too expensive for a mouse and only would really be good if you tend to go through a mouse a year. but any of the more expensive mice will outlast what you're paying on a sub
ofc that's assuming it's not like you stated in your last line
Yeah, even my $50-$60 logitechs will probably last me at least 5-10 years so even $1 would be steep but would be nice for example just to get a new case as the rubbery stuff starts wearing off which is something I'd probably just put up with otherwise.
This is why Chinese knock offs are winning.
Not because of price, but because of shit like this.
An idea for a mouse I will never buy in a million years
I'd rather just spend a few coins on a cheap mouse every 5-7 years which don't require a subscription to use and also don't bother me by asking me to update them either.
This is moronic if we let this nonsense continue how long until we have to subscribe for a microwave, tv, hifi, salt grinder etc.
Stop giving these things money please.
Bitch! You are just inventing stupid ideas about how to turn a hardware company into a service company, because you know that is where the money is.
Even assuming that I wasn't put off by having a subscription for a physical object, how could it possibly be financially viable for me to do that.
It would be cheaper for me to simply buy a new mouse every 4 or 5 years, and realistically I don't replace my mice that often. It's a mouse they don't really get to be that expensive even if you go for all the optional bells and whistles.
Yeah that's the point at the price point they have in mind it's definitely not viable
Tangential: Is there any community for mice akin to the mechanical keyboard community?
Would love to buy an alternative but every time I do any research it boils down to "razer or logitech" with everything else being orders of magnitude shittier.
I’d be more willing to pay Logitech for a subscription to never have to touch their software again.
Vance Packard warned us, in his book, The Waste Makers.
forever subscription, you say?
Oh no, anyway. Glad I never touched their peripherals because they're overpriced like Razer and other bigger companies.
clicking away with my knockoff OEM reliable gaming mouse
Imo software update for Mouse is not that necessarily crucial unless you had nasty bugs like Cooler Master during launching their mouse. My endgame mouse is MM712 and happy with that👍🏼
Also you can build your own mouse though iirc may be harder than building DIY keyboard (sc: built custom macropad for college project).
Company that makes Mice: Hey, what if we actually built a good mouse!
"Forever subscription mouse"
lmfao. At one point the Logitech mouse driver for MacOS was a 1GB download. They want me to pay for that shit???? gtfo.
It was a mouse driver in a windows XP VM. Really saves on development costs that way.
They already have a forever mouse - its called Logitech MX518 - at this point its over 18 years old, and beside some small paint deficiencies it has no other issues. And it was used quite heavily - it survived years of intensive button mashing in Diablo2 and many other games...
To be fair they only said having a subscription for the accompanying software was a 'possibility', not that it would need one, and that it would be likely to be in the ~$200 price range, and with upgradeability and repairability in mind, as well as reliant on software updates.
Honestly depending on how much they lean toward the subscription and/or software update reliance having a mouse designed to last a lifetime and be upgradeable and repairable would be nice, even at a rather higher price point.