PieFed‘Not acceptable in a democracy’: UN expert condemns lengthy Just Stop Oil sentences
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www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/ju…
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dactylothecaThis is the UK
Daniel Shaw, Louise Lancaster, Lucia Whittaker De Abreu and Cressida Gethin were each sentenced to four years in prison this week after being found guilty of planning disruptive protests on the M25. A fifth defendant, Roger Hallam, was sentenced to five years by a judge who said he “sat at the very highest level of the conspiracy”.
People in here are arguing about whether the government should be able to allow or disallow protests, i.e. "legal" or "illegal" protests.
I think Denmark has a good middle ground solution to this: Protests must be declared to the police ahead of time, so they know it is happening. Note that this is not an application or an ask for permission! You always have permission, you only have to make the police *aware* that you are protesting, so they can monitor it and ensure it follows law and order and doesn't turn violent.
France works that way as well.
On paper, but the city will still say "Friday's not good for us, how about next never?" Then the protest still happens but now the police can say the protest was announced too late and is violent while setting a corn field on fire with their tear gas. Which just happened this weekend.
Should be like, two days or more’s warning is the only requirement, they can’t say no. In Denmark, it’s 24 hours but they can prevent it.
Well, there's the theory and the practice...
* terms and conditions may apply
Guys, I'm planning to cause a traffic jam, and you all are invited.
Oh wait, that's just normal traffic. Oh well, see y'all in jail.
Protestation IS democracy you fucking fascists.
Banned
There is no such thing as an illegal protest. That is a concept made up by the people being protested against so that they can squash it. Protests are not supposed to be "convenient". They are not supposed to be comfortable or nice or pretty. They are supposed to force people to face the issue and band together to bring about real change.
Banned
If the protest isn't illegal, you aren't protesting, you are having a parade.
It's one thing not to like illegal protests and a different one to equate them with anarchy. I understand that the term "anarchy" is often used as a synonym to "lawlessness" but in reality it is a movement that aims to eradicate societal hierarchies and replace them with horizontal organizational structures.
Also as I'm sure you know, law is not set in stone, it does change. Many things that are legal now, were illegal in the past. Sometimes in order to influence lawmakers we need to do illegal stuff, like non-violent disruptive protests.
Banned
Your 8-hour work week was achieved by "illegal protests" among other things. Getting rid of the divine right of kings was "illegal".
Setting the world on fire is somehow not "illegal" though.
That's appropriate when you're trying to change certain things, not everything. When you're trying to get civil rights or anything else that the higher ruling class doesn't want you to have, it can and usually does necessitate illegal and violent protesting and uprising.
Of course what you describe is a way of doing things. What you say and what I said are not exclusionary. People can have both legal and illegal approaches on the same topic. Sometimes it is justifiable on moral grounds to break the law, and many countries recognize that need in their constitutions.
It is not acceptable anywhere. This "in a democracy" bit is just taking away blaim from dictator who do this kind of stuff all the time.
No, the point of the sentence isn't to take away blame. It is to compare them to dictatorships. I.E. Add more blame
I still don't understand why JSO is bothering common folk with their protests, go block politicians - you know, the people who YOU want to make the treatise to stop the use of oil!
I agree with what they want (though it would've been nice if they had a plan how to slow down our oil use, but then again they're no experts on that), but I do think they're being dumb on how to achieve it. You don't see Union Strikers block off a highway to get what they want, they'll instead block off some plant where they work - now that makes sense! Go bother politicians.
The problem with "they should have a plan" is that we have viable plans and nobody that's currently benefiting from oil will take any steps towards implementing them.
Banned
Peaceful protest should not be a cause for government punishment at all, this sentence is absolutely insane and should be revoked at the earliest convenience.
The new government should restore our right to protest policies without fear of imprisonment.
Banned
The entitlement of some people the moment they have a car. "Somebody took 20min of my time, they literally deserve 5 years in jail and to be assaulted in public.". You're sick, nothing your doing is important, sit in traffic and seeth. If you don't like it, take the train.
Banned
Government sanctioned protest ain't no protest lol. If you're protesting the government action by asking their permission, might as well write them angry letter so they can throw it in the bin quicker.
Banned
Actually I can justify breaking a law that I find unjust ❤️
Fucking lol, real first world problems over here.
You're saying "it is what it is", but what you're actually saying is this is how it *should be* while others are arguing it *should not*.
Change the law and your argument evaporates.
On Armistice Day, EDL protesters marched towards the Cenotaph (without permission) and launched fireworks that were intended to hit people and did strike policemen in the face. Let's see if they get 5 years.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/11/world/far-right-protestors-disrupt-armistice-day-london/index.html
Banned
It would be the *maximum* possible sentence for assault.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/outlines/assault/
That only works if a government *wants* to let you protest. And if people will even pay attention if you're protesting in a "citizen approved protesting location".
Kind of pointless to protest if no one pays attention to you.
Banned
I think if you're looking at a YouTube comment section for a rational point of view about *anything*, you've already lost the plot.
Banned
The science largely disagrees with you; but as usual there are no clear cut answers on such complex topics.
Do you think that their protest action should instead not inconvenience anyone so that it can continue to be ignored like all climate protests of that nature have been for decades?
Banned
So yes, you want people to protest in the same manner that has been ignored for decades. Gotcha.
Booo. This is a bad opinion. You should feel bad.
Banned
I think Just Stop Oil are largely a bunch of morons, but I still think a five year prison sentence for conspiracy to peacefully protest is abhorrent.
Lol you're delusional if you think that most people would want others imprisoned for years for conspiring to cause traffic or even to cause it.
Banned
This has to be the worst way to inform yourself you could possibly choose. Very telling.
YouTube comments are almost always a cesspool of bad opinions so I'd rather not.
Banned
“I can’t go to my office job or to get more mayo from asda because those wankers are protesting the end of the world!? Death penalty to them!”
Banned
And can be routed intelligently, and protests overwhelmingly let them pass. Traffic jams should also let them pass.
Is it so bad in the UK that a single day being late can justify an employer to fire people? I think you should join the protestors.