PieFedObscure screw added so appliance cannot be disassembled
submitted by
an_onanist@lemmy.world
lemmy.world/pictrs/image/24817514-149d-47ce-ad0…
Basic blender went bad (motor ran but spindle wasn't rotating). I wanted to disassemble to see if it could be repaired. Three of the four screws were Phillips head. I had to cut the casing open in order to discover why I couldn't unscrew the fourth. It was a slotted spanner.
hahahahahaha, about three years ago now, I bought a hunting knife from Amazon that came with a sheath which had a belt clip that was held on by one of these fucking screws.
at the time, i couldn't figure for the life of me what it was or if there was a tool for this so I went to Home Depot, bought a .99 cent flathead our of their bargain tubs, took it to their tool rental department where they also will cut metal for you if you ask nicely. had them make a notch in the top of the flathead, brought it home and after some filing got it to get in there and loosen up this devil screw top.
now i know it's called a U or H type screwdriver. my way was cheaper, but nice to know the real solution now.
Wow, doing a MacGuyver with corporate assistance. I like it!
That belt clip is there to make the knife technically legal in some areas. A 3"+ blade can't be concealed by putting it in your pocket, so the workaround is to have the clip showing on the outside of your pocket, making it visible. That's why they use screws like that. At least that is my understanding - I could be wrong.
Wow. This needs to be shown to all "ThIs Is FoR yOuR sAfEtY" idiots.
Harbor freight has sets of tamper resistant bits. They are also handy for regular Allen and torx heads.
This right here. I bought their security bit set and, true, I've only ever opened the case three times in the few years I've had it, but in those three times nothing else would have worked without a more destructive solution
Here’s the link, it’s helped me out a bunch of times in the 6-8 years I’ve had it.
2 notes though
Just to add to your comment, the sell a smaller set for a few dollars less and also a "precision" screwdriver set that has some similar bits not but the full set. Both are very handy to keep around for this exact thing.
It's called an "H-type" head. I found some tools for that on eBay but was reluctant to spend any money on something I'd probably never need again, ever. But this video shows a hack using scissors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA6_S9YkZEc
I didn't have a pair laying around that worked but the video inspired me to MacGyver my way to remove that aberration against all that's good in humanity.
in a case i only needed it once, i would solder or power glue something to it to use as a wings handle.
... but that's just me. I'm like eccentric MacGuyver.
What brand?
Kenmore
Can less
Barbieless
There is a screwdriver that you can get at the hardware store for this type of screw. You shouldn’t have to, I definitely agree. But fuck ‘em, repair your shit with the $5 screwdriver.
Comon, do some reading:
They didn't *have to* cut shit.
Which was discovered AS RESULT of cutting open.
You are quite spammy, aren't you?
You are quite spammy, aren't you?
Yeah we should be shaming companies that do this sort of shit.
OP, please tell us which brand designed this. I’d love to know to stay away from their crap as much as possible.
All of them.
If you haven't already, look into getting a ratcheting screwdriver with replaceable bits, and a pack of various bits for it. Idk where I got it, but I've got all kinds of screwy bits (including the H-bit head) that I need very infrequently, but I'm always happy when I do and I already have it.
I think the bit pack I got was for the security torx and it came with a bunch of other stuff.
I've found my ratchet driver is surprisingly often too thick to get into those screw holes of many electronics. There are thinner ones available, maybe go for those
Grab a dremel tool and make that piece of shit into a flathead
A grinder to the center would make that compatible with a flathead screwdriver.
Your gonna need a teeny tiny grinder. Maybe a dremmel?
Everyone should have a Dremel. Damn thing is so useful.
They really are and they're not prohibitively expensive either. Use mine all the time.
Everyone should have a bit-set that includes *standard* spanner bits. Especially in this community.
At that point you might as well just do it to the screw instead and use the normal screwdriver.
If you have a Dremel, I bet you could take out the center bit and use a regular slotted screwdriver.
$10 says it was recessed before op cut the base off, making it impossible without damage to slot the screw with a Dremel.
So you use the dremel to cut a groove into your screwdriver instead.
Damn, I didn’t even think of that. It would be ruining a good screwdriver, but you could just use an old worn flat-head drill bit.
Good call, either way.
👆
Where’d you get such a big brain
Edit - ah, since you can’t see the screw until you cut away at the product, the company is still going to frustrate even the crafty DIYers
make a print with a bit of putty on a stick ?
Great idea! Much more reasonable than trying to get a fiberoptic kind of camera down there.
At that point, just buy the correct bit for the job.
Buy a security bitset! It is surprisingly handly to have around. Sometimes, I've needed a certain screw size that they don't have in imperial, but they *do have* in metric at the hardware store. But it's a security bit only.
They also work on regular, non security bits in a pinch.
Comon, do some reading:
They didn't have to, somehow this was screwed in and it wasn't magic.
Phone camera; $30 digital microscope; $30 Endoscope. There are just so many better ways available to look down a hole to see what's at the bottom than to tear apart the space around it.
Spanner bits are available in sets starting as little as $7. They are anything but "non-standard".
Just a basic security screw. It's so kids (and people who don't know enough about repairing appliances to know about security screws) don't disassemble the dangerous machine.
Though it should be noted this does raise the bar above most people, especially on a budget, single use tools are hardly ever worth it.
Arguably more dangerous things have easier screws too, like electricity outlets
Grinding a notch into a flathead screwdriver is annoying but it'll still work fine as a flathead even afterwards. I would probably just grind the bulge out of the screw though.
In this case the screw was at the bottom of a narrow slot, and they only found it after breaking things.
They didn't *find* the screw by breaking the blender. They were able to reach it with a screwdriver before that, just not the right one. They broke it because they were too impatient to find a way to look into the hole and then find, make, or buy the right tool.
But they're in no way single use.
I can't say personally any of my appliances have had this screw, so again relative to someone not doing this for a living it very well could be
I have a set of these that was part of a larger set of precision bits I was buying anyway. I've only ever used one of the security bits in like a decade of having them. I wouldn't have bought the security bits alone.
That's more than some sockets or crescent wrenches I have from sets. I don't know that I've ever used an 11mm of either.
It's a blender... As long as it's unplugged you'll be fine.
PLUG IT IN UNDER WATER!
Well your blender problems would be over at least.
Don't forget to use your toaster as a bath toy at the same time.
Seriously. I'm not sure why people think it's so dangerous. Unplug it and remove the blades. Its just a motor for God's sake
I think the concern is that you would re-assemble it with the safety bypassed, not that you would harm yourself while disassembling the appliance.
Comon, do some reading:
Phone camera; $30 digital microscope; $30 Endoscope. There are just so many better ways available to look down a hole to see what's at the bottom than to tear apart the space around it.
Spanner bits are available in sets starting as little as $7. They are anything but "non-standard".
For 67$, OP could probably buy a new blender :)
Is that new blender going to help them fix other things around the house? $30 endoscope plus $8 screwdriver is still cheaper, and now they've broke the one blender, they've given themselves the excuse to just buy a new one anyways. Sure, applaud them for it, here of ald places.
A complete set of security screw bits is ~20 bucks and they're far more useful than I realized until I acquired them.
I think this was at the bottom of a deep hole, as you can see where the plastic was cut around it. A standard bit and holder wouldn't fit down that, I don't think. What the other guys said about a flathead and dremel/grinding wheel is the only option really, but you'd have to be able to ID the little fucker first.
Comon, do some reading:
Do some comprehending. Yes he had to do that. But it was because he was using the wrong bit.
Phone camera; $30 digital microscope; $30 Endoscope. There are just so many better ways available to look down a hole to see what's at the bottom than to tear apart the space around it.
OP didn't have to handle it how they did, at all.
He had to see which bit to use
That can be accomplished non-destructively.
Phone camera; $30 digital microscope; $30 Endoscope. There are just so many better ways available to look down a hole to see what's at the bottom than to tear apart the space around it.
Grind a flat
I didn't even know that that screw type had its own name until I saw it in another comment, but the first thing I thought was to just do what you said.
How are you supposed to grind a flat on a screw recessed 2" in a hole?
Take a flat screwdriver and moubt it on a vice. Take your angle grinder, mount a disk for metal grinding. Grind away the middle of the flat screwdriver head. Done it before for the exact same purpose.
1" Grinding wheel. Duh.
That's a flathead with a bead welded in the middle. Source a local dremel, some earplugs and eye pro, and do some quick converting.
Oh wait I think I understand the image. You had to saw the plastic apart to expose the screw. Yeah fuck those dudes. I guess another option would've been to get a cheap screw driver and modify it with a dremel? Either way, fuck Kenmore.
Wait... Oh.
They didn't have to do anything destructive to "expose" the screw. They were too lazy to find a better way to see the bottom of the hole it was in.
That's a standard spanner-head screw. No welding required. The bits and drivers are not so hard to come by, or make.
The bit set and tool set from IFixIt has those. I'm not sponsored by them in any way, but I will shamelessly recommend their tools when I can because they're objectively good for this kind of stuff.
I'd use my dremel to finish the slot that was only partially cut.
Or use the dremel to cut a slot in the end of a flat screwdriver.
My library has a lendable "Ultimate Screwdriver Kit" that has every bit size and type I've ever heard of, security Torx, pentalobe, oval, gamebit, spanner, etc etc. Also a bunch of different styles of bit holder, and a bunch of attachments like angle adapters, depth setters, torque limiters, etc. Only tangentially relevant I guess... but if you run into a problem like this again, check your local library to potentially avoid having to buy obscure bits online!
Cut that middle bit out and make it into a flathead.
The screw head was at tho bottom of a 2 inch shaft. I destroyed the casing just to find out what the issue was.
Wow that's terrible.
I had drill bits for such screws for decades, never had the reason to use them though. It's nice to see that there's a use for them after all!
Well, the drill bit wont fit if the hole is too long and thin, so its not always quite that easy.
Oh, I have that bit. Its not even the weirdest
My vacuum cleaner. You know how the roller brush gets all tangled up with hair and threads and whatnot, and the way you fix that is to remove the roller and cut it all out?
The external screws are torx *security* bits. The internal screws are Phillips. The only reason is to get someone who isn't persistent to go buy a new vacuum cleaner when their roller gets tangled
Name the brand so we can avoid
At this point I think at least a modest tamper kit should be in a household the same way a screwdriver was previously.
I just pull the hair directly off the roller as is. No need to take it out. I clean it often enough that it would take more time to take it off no matter what screws it has. The worst part imo is the internal screws being phillips. Torx (whether "security" versions or not) > Phillips/Flathead.
Pro-tip: cut the hair along the roller with a knife. Don't have to unwind it more than a single turn this way.
Looks like a job for a regular flathead and a grinding wheel.
Were you able to fix it?
I destroyed the casing to learn why my Phillips screw driver couldn't grab the screw head.
Thought they might sell these specialty tools online, but 3 minutes of searching came up with nothing. Might be time to get creative.
Do you have the room to get a Dremel in there the cut it so a regular flathead will work?
If not, maybe try to use needle noise pliers as your screwdriver.
As a last resort, pick up a cheap screwdriver and cut it to make it slotted.
Edit: I love how quickly several people have commented with links to the needed tools. Thanks to all of you!
https://www.ifixit.com/products/mako-driver-kit-64-precision-bits
iFixit sells kits like this that have every screw head imaginable. No need to get creative.
Edit: fixed link
Nice. Thanks for the link.
FYI: There is an "s" missing from the end of that url. https://www.ifixit.com/products/mako-driver-kit-64-precision-bits
Thanks, fixed
Hows the durability of their stuff? I've been intrigued.
I've had this kit for about two years and it's been excellent. I don't use it for much outside of electronics, which is not very taxing on these tools.
Awesome appreciate the insight! Next time I need something weird I'll grab a kit and chuck the rest of my amalgamation of random one-offs.
If you snap one, they will send you a replacement for free. I chipped one of the security torx once, and was surprised at how easy it was to get replaced.
thats whats up!
I have this kit and I remember seeing a similar head in there. Highly recommend it. I’ve used it a bunch.
Same, and I bought one over 6 years ago. Would buy again 11/10
Depending on the size, I've absolutely gotten small versions of these bits in IT/Electronics repair kits.
https://www.amazon.com/ORIA-Precision-Screwdriver-Extension-Smartphone/dp/B01E16J6RQ?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A2FOADTO08BQD0&th=1#immersive-view_1715788586172
I have this exact set. The bit he needs is second from the right, third from the bottom
One more use for the awesome oscillating cutting tool I received for Christmas last year!
I mean a blender isn't exactly the worst things to have security bits on.
Really? It seems to me that if you believe blenders should be tamper-proof, you must believe that all appliances should be.
A single tamper proof screw that all that's required to remove is knowledge... Yes. Unfortunately stupid people try to do things they shouldn't and that single screw removes an idiots ability to sue after they screw with things they know not.
It's not how it works...
That's exactly how it works and honestly this photo series is a pretty good illustration of why it works.
Or they could just not be able to sue a company for being an idiot 🤷♂️
Excuse me, I thought this was America!
There's the way the world works and the way the world aught to work according to xyz.
One is reality the other isn't. Realistically if you don't expect a security screw when taking apart dangerous electronics you probably shouldn't be working on them.
The tamper proof screw is NOT there to protect you, It's there to discourage repairs plain and simple. A warning label is more than adequate on other blenders, why not this one? In fact, there are plenty of dangerous devices I can think of that don't need to be locked down to prevent lawsuits. A lawsuit would require negligence on the part of the manufacture and while you're trying to say by not locking it down it could be considered negligence you'd be wrong. Otherwise I could quit my job and just file lawsuits all day. Let's not try to defend these companies that engineer planned obsolescence into their products. All they want is to be the sole repair option (big profit margins) or have you buy a new over priced high markup item. Nevermind the waste generated by hrowing away perfectly good products that a simple easy repair would fix.
Personally to me I think we need to stop idiot proofing everything.
I'm not saying remove all safety standards or warnings but we've gone too fuckin far to the point a complete moron has to be protected and treated like a child which just holds the rest of us back.
I know I have terrible eyesight, but it seems like I opened blind or dyslexic community. Why only few people noticed
Must be your eyesight, my friend. Looks normal to me...
They didn't *have to* cut shit.
Which was discovered AS RESULT of cutting open.
You are quite spammy, aren't you?
No, the shaft was not uncovered as a result of cutting the thing open. They were able to reach the screw-head with a regular screw-driver, just not turn it. Says right there in the post.
Learn to read, stop spamming people with your shit takes, and sure, let's pretend replying to your copy-pasted bullshit with more copy-pasted bullshit is somehow worse. Anything to feed trolls like you.
I'll reply with your quote:
This was NEVER about *access to the screw*.
The security bit is doing it's job. If this is a barrier for someone, then they aren't the kind of person who should be playing with the internals of a dangerous electronic device.
i feel like if someone has the capability of bitching about a security screw on the internet, they probably have the intelligence to unplug a blender from the wall.
If this is the standard for security screws, hex/torx will almost certainly do it's job, but significantly better.
This is the same person that had to smash open the device like a caveman banging rocks together. Posting a rant online instead of just buying a security bit isn't a good second step either. OP may certainly be the exact type of person to keep out: bold enough to try to break open electronics, but stopped by a fairly standard security bit.
Did you read post. Before writing was best time, but second best is now.
Here's quote if you have eyesight like mine:
They didn't *have to* cut shit.
Which was discovered AS RESULT of cutting open.
You are quite spammy, aren't you?
maybe caveman want motor out of blender, and screw is hinderance to motor collection. Don't judge a mans cave by the lack of blenders. Judge it by the principles held within!
Regardless, security bits are a skill issue, and i will not stand for them. They make cars with traditional bolts and nuts, those are perfectly accessible to the average person, yet people killing themselves with their bad car repairs, is disconcertingly low. They're bad for repairability, they're bad for the environment, and most importantly, they waste time and money for no fucking reason.
Seatbelts tend to be held in with Torx-head bolts. Right bicycle pedals have left-hand-threaded studs. Spanner-screws are a *standard* you'll find drivers for in any good security or electronics/small-appliance repair set.
Odds aren't that far off that this screw was chosen for their blenders decades ago when this screw-driver was more common, and this one part was never updated as the design ... "evolved".
i've got no problems with torx (it's one of the best driver designs) and nothing wrong with left hand thread, as you said, it's needed for bicycles, but using proprietary "security" bits is just, less than acceptable in the modern day and age.
Though i am inclined to agree with you on the design theory, it's more than likely they have billions of those little proprietary things kicking around in a warehouse, and there's just no reason for them to get rid of them.
Shit take.
Honestly, if you don't have a set of security bits I would be concerned about you opening up a blender.
honestly i'd be concerned about somebody without tools opening a blender. Why are they in there? How did they get in it? And what did the blender do to them?
ah yes a classic we call this a flathead, but without the part of the flathead that makes it good at not being a shit screw, but also it's located now so the driver doesn't slip out of the screw, so it's actually kinda better than just a flathead screw, but it probably strips a lot easier than a flathead, since there's a lot less surface area on it. Screw.
edit: there's a lot of people coping on this thread for some reason, bro it's a blender, who cares, it's like 20 dollars, 99% of the population is buying a new one anyway.
yeah, they're missing the fact it was posted in right to repair maybe.
idk how anybody would be missing that. I think people are just being their usual selves.
1% is buying a new one anyway, 49% repairs blender, 25% dreams of blender and 25% never heard of blender.
i didn't know there was a repair market for the free open source application of blender, that's cool