Matrix's ineffective moderation is making me consider ditching it. nsfw
submitted 2 months ago by Binzy_Boi
I hate having to make this post. I enjoy the Matrix software, I enjoy the fact that it's open source, developed by a non-profit, and that the protocol is completely original rather than built on top of existing standards. The layout of Element, the flagship client, is great, and I have met a great amount of enjoyable people on the protocol. However, what I saw from the Matrix admin the other day was straight up abysmal and shockingly ineffective with their moderation, and their prolonged lack of action has me debating if I should move away from Matrix as a whole considering this happened under the flagship Matrix.org instance in what is their official and second-biggest room.
So about two days ago or so, I was seeing that there were multiple notifications coming from the Matrix HQ room, of which I had the notifications for all messages turned on. I decided to take a look as to what was being talked about there, and the chat was being inundated with images of CSAM by two accounts. While it did take a bit of time for someone to ping the admin account, the resulting response, or rather, lack of response, was simply unacceptable by any stretch of the imagination.
It took over an hour and a half of these two accounts constantly sending images of CSAM for the admin account to step in and ban the accounts, and delete the images in question. In this time the admin account was pinged nine times, with moderators of the chat also all being pinged at once in one message. After the accounts posting the CSAM were banned, it took at least an extra two hours for all the pictures of CSAM to be deleted, as the admins left some photos undeleted before users started notifying them that they still remained.
This is the official Matrix instance hosted by the Matrix Foundation. Assuming that the admin account operates off the same timezone the Matrix Foundation is based in, this all happened in the middle of the day around noon. This is the second biggest room on the official Matrix server, and likely, the second biggest room on the entire Matrix protocol with over 60K members. This room is often people's first introduction to using Matrix, and for an hour and a half visitors to the room would be greeted with CSAM, and for an extra two hours, would be greeted with it if they were to simply scroll up in the message history.
This is beyond unacceptable. While I understand efforts to prevent CSAM from being posted to begin with can be an issue considering Matrix may not have the same tools to detect that content and delete it automatically, the fact that there was no action from Matrix moderation in their official room on their official instance for such an extended amount of time is inexcusable. I've since left the Matrix HQ room out of sheer disappointment, and am now considering if I should swap to using XMPP.
I really hope that the moderation on the official Matrix instance, especially within their official space, improves in the near future, but it honestly the fact that this kind of thing can happen this late into the room's existence already speaks volumes to me about how ineffective the moderation likely has been prior to me using Matrix on a near daily basis, and while I understand that the protocol is decentralized and that this doesn't reflect the administration of all instances, rooms, and spaces, it really has me questioning if I should be utilizing and/or supporting a protocol where the people behind it are stunningly ineffective at dealing with some of the most heinous, vile things someone can do or see.
As the other comment said, it's less used than Matrix, but it's moreso I've heard that XMPP, unlike Matrix, doesn't really have their own official chatrooms directly managed by XMPP Standards Foundation.
Whether that's true or not, I'm not quite sure, I still need to do some exploring with XMPP and see for myself, but that being the case alone would prevent a situation like with Matrix where this kind of content is being posted under their direct supervision.
Again, I'm reiterating just to make sure I'm being clear, but it's not an issue for me if there's going to be CSAM on the protocol or even on an official server for it, but I'd be uncomfortable using a protocol if that kind of content was being posted and not properly dealt with in official chatrooms.
That is just “less spam by obscurity”. If that is what you want, your best option would be to write your own chat application and be the only one using it.
The fact that bad actors can misuse X is not really a good argument for not using X appropriately, IMO.
I don’t even know who moderates that room. It was not the first Matrix room I joined, actually I don’t think I’ve ever been in it. But as you find the moderation lacking, you could volunteer to be a part of the moderation team. Be the change you want to see in the world :)
If your only issue is with the official server, why would you not just use matrix but join a different server?
Feel free to disagree, but it's a bit of a moral thing for me as to whether I'd be comfortable utilizing tools developed by a group with issues like this.
As said in another comment, I'm already on a separate server, that being tchncs. I just personally wouldn't like to see my usage of the protocol possibly being seen as me being content or indifferent to these heavy moderation issues in their official rooms.
I’m not sure I see poor performance by volunteer moderators on a service tangential at best to the development of open source server software as a moral issue with that software in any way. But as you said, you’re free to disagree.
It doesnt matter what server your on you can still join the same rooms