It’s so painful for me to see there’s a group of people who are ostensibly allies to the Palestinian cause, but who balk at the idea of them actually defending themselves against the apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. The kind that will only support armed resistance after all is said and done, when it no longer matters. The kind that supports slave revolts in 19th century US, the warsaw uprising during WWII, the Black Panther party and Malcolm X in the 60s, the ANC during apartheid South Africa. But when a group uses violent means today to fight against horrific violence and oppression, that’s a bridge too far and we all have to stop and think about the optics.
They’ve tried non-violent means. We’ve all seen where that ends. Look up the march of return. Non-violent demonstration. Resulted in Israeli snipers targetting children, the disabled, and the elderly. The world looked on and did fucking nothing. And that’s been the story over and over, for nearly a century. There’s kids being murdered on a daily basis, but you want these Palestinians to sit on their thumbs and host a tea party. Go fuck yourself, they do not have time for this.
You can support hamas at the level of their resistance to colonialism. Just like you can support Maduro at the level of the resistance to imperialist aggressions.
Support doesnt need to be absolute. But just supporting the palestinians without support for their flawed means of resistance is pointless, demobilising, weakening…
Exactly that yes, and another point is that the IOF are objectively the terorrists in every single comparison matrics and every accusation and war crime claim against Hamas.
And last point you can’t for example say I’m against aparthied, slavery, genocide and occuption, but then condemn the occupied right to resist.
You can support hamas at the level of their resistance to colonialism
How about supporting anti-colonialism without supporting murderers on either side. Seriously, you don’t need to latch onto bad people to fight bad people.
I don’t know who needs to read this affirmation out there but here we go, repeat after me:
Whats your great moral plan of action for the people dying in gaza?
You can say that pro-terrorist sentiment is bad without having all the answers for how to fucking solve the middle-east conflict that’s going on longer than either of us have been alive. This is a bad-faith response because you don’t know how to actually defend the idea and I won’t see another response from you. Go ahead and play to the crowd, maybe you’ll get an updoot.
edit: I find it absolutely fascinating how only in posts about Gaza/Israel, both on larger sites like reddit and here on lemmy, you can make a statement or appeal for peace and humanity that gets popular support immediately, but then as days stretch on, the same comment or post will continue to gain downvotes without any actual response or pushback, just like they’re on some kind of ticker… you know, spreading it out so automated bot-catchers don’t catch on.
You might almost think some wealthy superpowers are working to frame a narrative and control what people feel and think.
That would mean that you would have been against indiginous resistance as a whole since their resistance was not always completely clean, same with Nat Turner, same with Mandela and his anc party , same with some jewish resistances group against Hitler since some tried to poison water suply .
I do not condone the persecution and execution of innocents but I do not reject Palestinians or any other population right to resistance despite war crimes. Once occupation end I support persecuting war criminals from both side . Your bullshit make it looks like palestians should drop all kind of valid armed resistance because of war crimes so israel continue exterminating them slowly
Hamas’ actions aim to stop exactly that… an ongoing genocide to be more precise. Acting cleanly, morally, requires a strength that they dont have. This is what they can afford to do. Should they just die silently instead? while the world watches almost immobile?
Having two entities that harass and kill you isn’t better than having one of those, even if they fight each other. It will not bring less suffering to you, but frequently brings more.
No. The occupation will end when the apartheid regime is defeated.
When I say they’re dead weight, I mean at this point they are more useful to the apartheid regime as a stick with which to hit the Palestine liberation movement, than they are useful to the Palestine liberation movement.
Which is the real liberation movement? The real dead weight are those major countries that continue to have a normal relation with the colonial power despite 57 goddamn year of occupation
When I say they’re dead weight, I mean at this point they are more useful to the apartheid regime as a stick with which to hit the Palestine liberation movement, than they are useful to the Palestine liberation movement.
And they was right about Oslo. Israel continue to build settlements, continud to arm settler terrorists, let them attack westbankers than protect them while the PA is acting like another protection for Israel
Edit : Do you realize that other resistance groups also did war crimes and without those resistance groups there would be not liberation?
And if we apply that universaly you would never support your country army or the allies during world war 2
Israel and it’s backer stands for eternal war, oppression of Palestinians, and religious fanaticism
Hamas being dead weight for the Palestinian cause falls apart when you examine the international conscience level being raised after Oct 7th. If it hadn’t been for Palestinians organizing an armed defense of Palestine and striking back against their colonizers and exterminators, many of us (shamefully myself included) would still be saying “both sides bad, old religious conflict, complicated solution” in willful ignorance and Palestinians would continue being genocided in silence as has happened for the past 80 years.
Why would you even discuss Israelis? If they want to be safe and unharmed, all they have to do is stop genociding Palestinians and return them their lands.
Israel genociding Gaza is not based on religious doctrine, and neither is Palestinians resisting genocide through their international law right to armed self defense. Claiming otherwise and doing the “religious old conflict yadda yadda” bothsideism only benefits the Zionists.
Edit: this person is a Zionist Nazi defending Israel’s genocide and the ICE murdering people on the streets
Oh I’m sorry, you got it wrong. The country currently whose authorities are extrajudicially murdering citizens on the streets is the USA, not Palestine. Hope I cleared that confusion for you! Palestine are the ones getting genocided by the Zionist settler state occupying their lands.
Damn, they got “killing their own citizens” stick then? It’s nice that the universe works this way, and only one country on the planet at a time can have the government that kills their own citizens. Otherwise the universe would be cruel, and you would be an idiot.
Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is Zionist is the new version of Everything I Don’t Like Is Woke, for people who still want to be braindead, but the red hat looks bad on them
Hamas committed genocide on October 7, 2023. If you support Hamas, you support genocide.
Anyone with half a brain can see the genocidal actions of Hamas does not benefit the Palestinian people. They only get Palestinian people killed and produce propaganda for their own profit. If you support Hamas, you want more Palestinians to die.
A non-violent resistance movement is the only feasible path to Palestinian statehood. The existence of Hamas means it can’t be a non-violent resistance. If you support Hamas, you’re against Palestinian statehood.
Support of Hamas means you’re someone in denial that Hamas lost, you’re in denial that Hamas has been objectively bad for the Palestinian people. Your hatred doesn’t make you stronger, it only makes you stupid. Hamas and others dominated by hate will continue to lose endlessly because they’re too stupid to accomplish anything other than destruction. You feel like hatred will make you strong enough to destroy your enemies. Look at Tel Aviv. Look at Gaza. What has the hatred of Hamas really destroyed?
The Nazis were hateful people that lost a war and were objectively bad for the German people. Today only losers identify as Nazis. Supporting Hamas at this point is no different. Hamas is objectively bad for the Palestinian people, and they are losers. Modern day Nazis will say it’s about pride or whatever, but we all know they’re losers that only have hatred and nothing else. Same goes for Hamas. It’s identifying losers that didn’t accomplish anything other than the destruction of their own city and the deaths of their own people.
If you support Hamas you’re a stupid loser that doesn’t have anything other than hatred. That’s why you don’t get invited to nice parties. You’re full of hatred and denial that’s what makes you losers.
The irony of comparing hamas to Nazis whilst there is a much better candidate for comparison, bombing children and hospitals in the name of killing hamas members is laughable.
Hamas has been gaining support due to the fact that they are the only ones willing to stand up to the nazis that have so far, killed 50,000 children, and laugh about doing so.
Read some history. Canada actually bombed a children’s hospital in WWII. They missed their target you see. The children’s hospital was built a little to close to a target with strategic value. You might be able to find the vitriol spewed by Guering (or maybe it was Goebels, Nazis are all alike) over the incident.
No one thinks much of it now. The Nazis were clearly the aggressor, and bombs miss their targets sometimes. It was a horrible event to be sure, but an event that wouldn’t have happened if it weren’t for the Nazis going on some insane campaign to restore the ethnic makeup of the region to how it was in the history books. What’s the goal of Hamas again?
There was a clear act that initiated the Israel-Hamas war (October 7), Hamas was clearly the aggressor. The casualty rate is consistent with similar military urban combat operations. And, need I remind you again? None of it would’ve happened if Hamas hadn’t massacred villages and taken hostage.
Hamas did horrible things, and initiated a war which they lost. Check the news. Iran, the backer of Hamas is on the ropes.
In the future do you want to be some loser that claims “actually Hamas was in the right” the same way losers say “actually the Nazis had some good points”? Gonna be a person that points out the allies did some bad things in WWII to try to prove “actually the allies were worse than the Nazis.” That’s what the future is for Hamas supporters.
You’re in a bubble right now where you aren’t hearing about how horrible Hamas is. Iran had a big part to play in creating that bubble, similar to how Russia created a bubble where Ukraine started the war with Russia. With what’s going on right now, what are you going to do when that bubble is no longer being inflated by a nation state? Will you admit you were wrong, or will you be a loser that continues to pretend past genocidal losers were the good guys?
I’m aware that Canadians have done some absolutely deplorable stuff; so much so that they were considered savages in world war 2 for their brutality towards POWs; the whole Canadian nice guy routine is fairly new to the world stage. Of course us Brits have a bloodied and nasty history too, I’m not attempting to throw stones or anything like that, just highlighting the fact that I’m aware of Canada’s brutality in the name of peacekeeping rather than blinded by the ‘west is best’ rhetoric we’ve all been spoonfed growing up.
Does any of that mean that I think Hamas are the ones committing genocide, and that Israel are justified in their now 2 year genocide of Palestinians? Ofcourse not. My thoughts on the subject remain the same. Hamas are the only ones standing up for a people who have faced oppression from Israel long before they faced an active genocidal campaign. I don’t think they were justified in killing 54 people 2 years ago; I also don’t think killing 54 people justifies the systemic extermination of an entire country.
E2A: most Western media is owned by Zionists or allies of Zionists; if anything, we hear nothing but how justified Israel’s continued genocide is. It’s also why we see things like people protesting Israel in the west being silenced. Its laughable to suggest Iran have any sway in Western media, and are somehow rewriting the narrative, when the opposite is clearly true.
How exactly do you define genocide anyway? I think of it as attempting to kill another race of people. We don’t give cut the Nazis some slack because they failed in their goal, why should we be cutting Hamas slack when they had the same goal?
Explain to me how Hamas killing every Jew they could find on October 7 isn’t genocide? Go on and do your genocide denial rationalizations and I’ll compare it to the shit I’ve heard from the losers sympathetic to the Nazis.
Dude, the mental gymnastics you’re having to do to justify a two year genocide is insane, I seriously think you should get some fresh air or something. Seriously…
PieFed
geneva_convenience
It’s so painful for me to see there’s a group of people who are ostensibly allies to the Palestinian cause, but who balk at the idea of them actually defending themselves against the apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and genocide. The kind that will only support armed resistance after all is said and done, when it no longer matters. The kind that supports slave revolts in 19th century US, the warsaw uprising during WWII, the Black Panther party and Malcolm X in the 60s, the ANC during apartheid South Africa. But when a group uses violent means today to fight against horrific violence and oppression, that’s a bridge too far and we all have to stop and think about the optics.
They’ve tried non-violent means. We’ve all seen where that ends. Look up the march of return. Non-violent demonstration. Resulted in Israeli snipers targetting children, the disabled, and the elderly. The world looked on and did fucking nothing. And that’s been the story over and over, for nearly a century. There’s kids being murdered on a daily basis, but you want these Palestinians to sit on their thumbs and host a tea party. Go fuck yourself, they do not have time for this.
Based is so fetch.
But ‘till’ is still wrong.
Top Fetch.
You also can be against the IDF and against Hamas and still support Palestinians.
You can support hamas at the level of their resistance to colonialism. Just like you can support Maduro at the level of the resistance to imperialist aggressions.
Support doesnt need to be absolute. But just supporting the palestinians without support for their flawed means of resistance is pointless, demobilising, weakening…
Exactly that yes, and another point is that the IOF are objectively the terorrists in every single comparison matrics and every accusation and war crime claim against Hamas.
And last point you can’t for example say I’m against aparthied, slavery, genocide and occuption, but then condemn the occupied right to resist.
How about supporting anti-colonialism without supporting murderers on either side. Seriously, you don’t need to latch onto bad people to fight bad people.
I don’t know who needs to read this affirmation out there but here we go, repeat after me:
Good things are good, bad things are bad.
Great, lets fight colonialism by repeating tautologies out loud. Whats your great moral plan of action for the people dying in gaza?
You can say that pro-terrorist sentiment is bad without having all the answers for how to fucking solve the middle-east conflict that’s going on longer than either of us have been alive. This is a bad-faith response because you don’t know how to actually defend the idea and I won’t see another response from you. Go ahead and play to the crowd, maybe you’ll get an updoot.
edit: I find it absolutely fascinating how only in posts about Gaza/Israel, both on larger sites like reddit and here on lemmy, you can make a statement or appeal for peace and humanity that gets popular support immediately, but then as days stretch on, the same comment or post will continue to gain downvotes without any actual response or pushback, just like they’re on some kind of ticker… you know, spreading it out so automated bot-catchers don’t catch on.
You might almost think some wealthy superpowers are working to frame a narrative and control what people feel and think.
You would have condemned Nelson Mandela and the ANC
So your plan is
I dunno but not like that
Great thanks.
Good is good. Bad is bad.
No middle ground. No shades of grey. No nuance.
Turns out it’s a shit affirmation.
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That would mean that you would have been against indiginous resistance as a whole since their resistance was not always completely clean, same with Nat Turner, same with Mandela and his anc party , same with some jewish resistances group against Hitler since some tried to poison water suply .
I will not condone persecution and execution of innocents, no matter how you turn it.
I do not condone the persecution and execution of innocents but I do not reject Palestinians or any other population right to resistance despite war crimes. Once occupation end I support persecuting war criminals from both side . Your bullshit make it looks like palestians should drop all kind of valid armed resistance because of war crimes so israel continue exterminating them slowly
It worked so well for the Taliban. Now it’s all rosy and dainty under their regime, especially for women. I bet Hamas would be different.
Hamas is not Palestine.
You would have condemned the Warsaw Ghetto uprising
Hamas’ actions aim to stop exactly that… an ongoing genocide to be more precise. Acting cleanly, morally, requires a strength that they dont have. This is what they can afford to do. Should they just die silently instead? while the world watches almost immobile?
Weren’t there dozens of friendly fire casualties too?
Do you not know what propaganda is?
No, you cannot support Palestinians who are being genocided by denying their right to armed self defense.
Having two entities that harass and kill you isn’t better than having one of those, even if they fight each other. It will not bring less suffering to you, but frequently brings more.
Can you? How are you supporting Palestinians?
By supporting the Palestinian Authority and the PLO
I assume you’re joking
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The title doesn’t convey what the tweet is saying.
Also, Hamas is dead weight for the Palestinian cause.
And also no Hamas is not based.
Are you saying that without Hamas occupation would end?
No. The occupation will end when the apartheid regime is defeated.
When I say they’re dead weight, I mean at this point they are more useful to the apartheid regime as a stick with which to hit the Palestine liberation movement, than they are useful to the Palestine liberation movement.
Which is the real liberation movement? The real dead weight are those major countries that continue to have a normal relation with the colonial power despite 57 goddamn year of occupation
I don’t know what to answer to this half word salad, sorry.
How is it words salad?
That is why Bibi helped fund them.
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And they was right about Oslo. Israel continue to build settlements, continud to arm settler terrorists, let them attack westbankers than protect them while the PA is acting like another protection for Israel
Edit : Do you realize that other resistance groups also did war crimes and without those resistance groups there would be not liberation?
And if we apply that universaly you would never support your country army or the allies during world war 2
Israel and it’s backer stands for eternal war, oppression of Palestinians, and religious fanaticism
Zionist scum.
Hamas being dead weight for the Palestinian cause falls apart when you examine the international conscience level being raised after Oct 7th. If it hadn’t been for Palestinians organizing an armed defense of Palestine and striking back against their colonizers and exterminators, many of us (shamefully myself included) would still be saying “both sides bad, old religious conflict, complicated solution” in willful ignorance and Palestinians would continue being genocided in silence as has happened for the past 80 years.
The state of where we are as a species: you got mixed votes on this. In Lemmy. A place that’s supposed to be an absolute den of progressive values.
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I want Palestinian people to be safe and unharmed. I want Israelis to be safe and unharmed.
Guess that makes me an antisemite. /s
Why would you even discuss Israelis? If they want to be safe and unharmed, all they have to do is stop genociding Palestinians and return them their lands.
Yeah, and I want them to do that actually.
I support hamas when they attack military targets and don’t support the killing of civilians
Hamas has nothing to do with progressive politics. They are a terrorist organisation that murdered non-combatants, children and youths.
Fuck IDF and fuck Hamas.
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Israel genociding Gaza is not based on religious doctrine, and neither is Palestinians resisting genocide through their international law right to armed self defense. Claiming otherwise and doing the “religious old conflict yadda yadda” bothsideism only benefits the Zionists.
Edit: this person is a Zionist Nazi defending Israel’s genocide and the ICE murdering people on the streets
Deleted by moderator
Oh I’m sorry, you got it wrong. The country currently whose authorities are extrajudicially murdering citizens on the streets is the USA, not Palestine. Hope I cleared that confusion for you! Palestine are the ones getting genocided by the Zionist settler state occupying their lands.
Damn, they got “killing their own citizens” stick then? It’s nice that the universe works this way, and only one country on the planet at a time can have the government that kills their own citizens. Otherwise the universe would be cruel, and you would be an idiot.
Sorry, I don’t engage with Zionists :) hope you get banned so that Lemmy becomes a better place!
Everyone Who Disagrees With Me Is Zionist is the new version of Everything I Don’t Like Is Woke, for people who still want to be braindead, but the red hat looks bad on them
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Great, finally I made you expose your views. Now we just wait for you to get the ban, you disgusting Zionist Nazi :)
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Fuuck, you’re a bad person actually. Like, fundamentally, a bad human.
Deleted by moderator
Hamas committed genocide on October 7, 2023. If you support Hamas, you support genocide.
Anyone with half a brain can see the genocidal actions of Hamas does not benefit the Palestinian people. They only get Palestinian people killed and produce propaganda for their own profit. If you support Hamas, you want more Palestinians to die.
A non-violent resistance movement is the only feasible path to Palestinian statehood. The existence of Hamas means it can’t be a non-violent resistance. If you support Hamas, you’re against Palestinian statehood.
Support of Hamas means you’re someone in denial that Hamas lost, you’re in denial that Hamas has been objectively bad for the Palestinian people. Your hatred doesn’t make you stronger, it only makes you stupid. Hamas and others dominated by hate will continue to lose endlessly because they’re too stupid to accomplish anything other than destruction. You feel like hatred will make you strong enough to destroy your enemies. Look at Tel Aviv. Look at Gaza. What has the hatred of Hamas really destroyed?
The Nazis were hateful people that lost a war and were objectively bad for the German people. Today only losers identify as Nazis. Supporting Hamas at this point is no different. Hamas is objectively bad for the Palestinian people, and they are losers. Modern day Nazis will say it’s about pride or whatever, but we all know they’re losers that only have hatred and nothing else. Same goes for Hamas. It’s identifying losers that didn’t accomplish anything other than the destruction of their own city and the deaths of their own people.
If you support Hamas you’re a stupid loser that doesn’t have anything other than hatred. That’s why you don’t get invited to nice parties. You’re full of hatred and denial that’s what makes you losers.
This statement alone should get you banned from every single Lemmy instance. Zionist scum
The irony of comparing hamas to Nazis whilst there is a much better candidate for comparison, bombing children and hospitals in the name of killing hamas members is laughable.
Hamas has been gaining support due to the fact that they are the only ones willing to stand up to the nazis that have so far, killed 50,000 children, and laugh about doing so.
Read some history. Canada actually bombed a children’s hospital in WWII. They missed their target you see. The children’s hospital was built a little to close to a target with strategic value. You might be able to find the vitriol spewed by Guering (or maybe it was Goebels, Nazis are all alike) over the incident.
No one thinks much of it now. The Nazis were clearly the aggressor, and bombs miss their targets sometimes. It was a horrible event to be sure, but an event that wouldn’t have happened if it weren’t for the Nazis going on some insane campaign to restore the ethnic makeup of the region to how it was in the history books. What’s the goal of Hamas again?
There was a clear act that initiated the Israel-Hamas war (October 7), Hamas was clearly the aggressor. The casualty rate is consistent with similar military urban combat operations. And, need I remind you again? None of it would’ve happened if Hamas hadn’t massacred villages and taken hostage.
Hamas did horrible things, and initiated a war which they lost. Check the news. Iran, the backer of Hamas is on the ropes.
In the future do you want to be some loser that claims “actually Hamas was in the right” the same way losers say “actually the Nazis had some good points”? Gonna be a person that points out the allies did some bad things in WWII to try to prove “actually the allies were worse than the Nazis.” That’s what the future is for Hamas supporters.
You’re in a bubble right now where you aren’t hearing about how horrible Hamas is. Iran had a big part to play in creating that bubble, similar to how Russia created a bubble where Ukraine started the war with Russia. With what’s going on right now, what are you going to do when that bubble is no longer being inflated by a nation state? Will you admit you were wrong, or will you be a loser that continues to pretend past genocidal losers were the good guys?
I’m aware that Canadians have done some absolutely deplorable stuff; so much so that they were considered savages in world war 2 for their brutality towards POWs; the whole Canadian nice guy routine is fairly new to the world stage. Of course us Brits have a bloodied and nasty history too, I’m not attempting to throw stones or anything like that, just highlighting the fact that I’m aware of Canada’s brutality in the name of peacekeeping rather than blinded by the ‘west is best’ rhetoric we’ve all been spoonfed growing up.
Does any of that mean that I think Hamas are the ones committing genocide, and that Israel are justified in their now 2 year genocide of Palestinians? Ofcourse not. My thoughts on the subject remain the same. Hamas are the only ones standing up for a people who have faced oppression from Israel long before they faced an active genocidal campaign. I don’t think they were justified in killing 54 people 2 years ago; I also don’t think killing 54 people justifies the systemic extermination of an entire country.
E2A: most Western media is owned by Zionists or allies of Zionists; if anything, we hear nothing but how justified Israel’s continued genocide is. It’s also why we see things like people protesting Israel in the west being silenced. Its laughable to suggest Iran have any sway in Western media, and are somehow rewriting the narrative, when the opposite is clearly true.
How exactly do you define genocide anyway? I think of it as attempting to kill another race of people. We don’t give cut the Nazis some slack because they failed in their goal, why should we be cutting Hamas slack when they had the same goal?
Explain to me how Hamas killing every Jew they could find on October 7 isn’t genocide? Go on and do your genocide denial rationalizations and I’ll compare it to the shit I’ve heard from the losers sympathetic to the Nazis.
Dude, the mental gymnastics you’re having to do to justify a two year genocide is insane, I seriously think you should get some fresh air or something. Seriously…
You didn’t answer my question.
Explain to me how Hamas killing every Jew they could find on October 7 isn’t genocide?
～(つˆ0ˆ)つ｡☆ zionist ☆
Congrats, you just won this label!